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To: justinmartyr

"But the question has not been disposed of."

See #119 & #125 above.

Benedict IV, Pius XI and Vatican II (Presbyterium Ordinis)all state that it is a discipline only and not a matter of doctrine.

Where Vatican II merely repeats the previous teaching of the Magisterium, I don't think we really have any grounds to question its veracity on those points!

The recent push to dogmatise celibacy is just another example of how this Pope and some of his sycophants will try and bend the words of Scripture itself to canonise his prudential judgements and personal opinions.


139 posted on 01/25/2005 5:59:56 PM PST by Tantumergo
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To: Tantumergo

Not so.

None of these was a dogmatic pronouncement. I'm sorry to seem disloyal, but they simply weren't. As such, I believe, they have equal force to the Council of Nicea's (completely contradictory) canon regarding the conjugal rights of clerics.

Look, I would be delighted to toss celibacy out of the window, in light of the number of warped perverts (not all of them gay by any means) that I have encountered in the priesthood. But my thoughts on this matter are of no more importance than yours. The true question is what is God's Will for his Church. And very few people seem to be concerned with that when these discussions arise.


144 posted on 01/25/2005 6:12:26 PM PST by justinmartyr
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To: Tantumergo
The recent push to dogmatise celibacy is just another example of how this Pope and some of his sycophants will try and bend the words of Scripture itself to canonise his prudential judgements and personal opinions.

I don't think the Pope is in on this "push".

CCC 1580 In the Eastern Churches a different discipline has been in force for many centuries: while bishops are chosen solely from among celibates, married men can be ordained as deacons and priests. This practice has long been considered legitimate; these priests exercise a fruitful ministry within their communities.73 Moreover, priestly celibacy is held in great honor in the Eastern Churches and many priests have freely chosen it for the sake of the Kingdom of God. In the East as in the West a man who has already received the sacrament of Holy Orders can no longer marry.

151 posted on 01/25/2005 6:44:32 PM PST by gbcdoj ("The Pope orders, the cardinals do not obey, and the people do as they please" - Benedict XIV)
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