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True Worship and True Morality
Prydain ^ | 1/18/2005 | Will

Posted on 01/18/2005 9:46:17 AM PST by sionnsar

The Rev. Louis Tarsitano--rest in peace.
The Rev. Louis Tarsitano, rector of St. Andrew's Church in Savannah (a Continuing Anglican church) and noted writer and thinker, passed away this past Saturday, January 15. His loss will be keenly felt in North American Anglicanism, as he was sound in doctrine and practice.

This sermon by him, True Worship and True Morality, is a good example of his preaching. Basing his sermon on Amos 8:7, the Rev. Tarsitano wrote:

The difference between true and false worship is the difference between life and death. The choice between the true worship of himself that God has established and the inevitable moral degradation that must follow false worship is terribly real, whether we are speaking of Jeroboam’s time, 2800 years ago, or contemplating our own situation today.

Since the 1960s, a great many households within the Christian Church have replaced the form of worship that their ancestors had received from God in his providential governance of his Church with new inventions of their own. These new forms of worship may seem, as Jeroboam’s invented religion did, rather like the old religion, but they have in practice turned out to be the worship of men, the idolatry of men’s ideas and politics, and slavery to the fads of intellectuals. And what has happened?

Church after church is racked with scandals of immorality, including the abuse of children—a sin we always find connected with false religion and paganism in the Bible. New priesthoods and ministries have been invented, and they have divided the Church in ways that we are only now discovering, as we only begin to remember that female priesthood and inverted sexuality were always signs of false religion and rebellion against God in the Holy Scriptures. People claiming to be “Christians” join the clamor to remove the Ten Commandments from public view.

But enough. We know the symptoms. What we need to be clear about this morning is the disease that causes them. And that disease is the disease of Jeroboam and the Northern Kingdom, condemned by God this morning. That disease is the abandonment of the true worship that God has provided for us to offer praise to the glory of his Name for inventions and self-expressions of our own. And once we are disobedient in worship, we have given up the God-given means of our moral reclamation when we go astray.


Truly this was a prophetic voice, and he will be missed. May we learn from his life and example.

Posted by Will at 12 : 09 am | Leave a note {N}


TOPICS: Mainline Protestant
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1 posted on 01/18/2005 9:46:20 AM PST by sionnsar
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To: ahadams2; Brian Allen; kalee; walden; tjwmason; proud_2_B_texasgal; Perseverando; TexasKamaAina; ...

Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.

FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this list.
This is a moderately high-volume ping list (typically 3-7 pings/day).

Resource for Traditional Anglicans: http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com

2 posted on 01/18/2005 9:46:52 AM PST by sionnsar († trad-anglican.faithweb.com † || Iran Azadi || Kiev County: http://www.soundpolitics.com)
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To: sionnsar

"That disease is the abandonment of the true worship that God has provided for us to offer praise to the glory of his Name for inventions and self-expressions of our own. And once we are disobedient in worship, we have given up the God-given means of our moral reclamation when we go astray."

The words Orthodox or Orthodoxy come from two Greek words, Orthos and Doxia, meaning correct or right praise or glory. In the Eastern Church we are often accused of never having changed much of anything for the past 1400 years or so. Guilty as charged. We love our "Orthodoxia". It has kept us religoiusly straight and safe for a very, very long time through some very dangerous and trying times.


3 posted on 01/18/2005 1:23:00 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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To: Kolokotronis

I have to say that is a very good way of staying out of trouble. I remember my father's complaints, back when they starting drafting the trial liturgies, that they were changing the theology along with the language.


4 posted on 01/18/2005 3:18:55 PM PST by sionnsar († trad-anglican.faithweb.com † || Iran Azadi || Kiev County: http://www.soundpolitics.com)
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To: Kolokotronis

May the Rev. Tarsitano enter into the Light of His Presence. A wonderful,wise sermon for dark times. Keep the faith, my traditional Anglican friends. Say, Mr K., is there an Orthodox ping list for those of us on the East side of the City of God?


5 posted on 01/18/2005 4:01:54 PM PST by infidel dog (nearer my God to thee....)
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To: infidel dog; MarMema; Agrarian; monkfan; FormerLib; kosta50; Destro

"Say, Mr K., is there an Orthodox ping list for those of us on the East side of the City of God?"

I think Marmema runs one, though I don't know if its very formal. I'm pinging her and some others so we'll remember to ping you when appropriate.


6 posted on 01/18/2005 5:11:02 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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True Worship and True Morality

bookmark.


7 posted on 01/18/2005 6:22:49 PM PST by JockoManning (www.biblegateway.com)
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To: sionnsar
One should not confuse the manner of worship with thoelogy. How we cross, bow or kneel, how we hold our hands when we pray, etc. is not holy in itself, but the Liturgy is Divine. We can change the manner but not the essence of worship.

Although the Eastern Orthodox Church claims to have changed little since the Pentecost, the plain fact is that each Eastern church exhibits a mixture of Divine elements of worship with elements created by local customs, language, etc. What's important is that they all share the same Liturgy -- which has changed only in length but not in essence -- since the 4th century AD.

8 posted on 01/18/2005 7:36:20 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Kolokotronis; sionnsar
"It has kept us religiously straight and safe for a very, very long time through some very dangerous and trying times."

This is so true. I was noticing this at our choir practice tonight. As we ran through the stichera for Vespers for Saturday night, it was all there -- the lives of the saints, dogmatic theology, the path to theosis... This is there at every service.

The doxasticon at the Aposticha for St. Clement of Ancyra was particularly rich:

"The martyr Clement, wondrous among priests, through long testing by torture hath been vouchsafed ever to receive sweetness and divine riches among the blessed, having anointed many for the contest by his own example, and subdued the flesh, that his mind might transcend death. To him let us cry out, O ye faithful: O glorious great martyr, by thy supplications unto the Lord release us from the chronic state of our passions, and deliver us from evils by thine entreaties."

Of course, it sounds best with the appointed melody...

One can understand why the Orthodox clung to their services in the midst of their darkest hours.

9 posted on 01/18/2005 8:18:43 PM PST by Agrarian
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To: Agrarian; sionnsar

"As we ran through the stichera for Vespers for Saturday night, it was all there -- the lives of the saints, dogmatic theology, the path to theosis... This is there at every service."

You see, there it is, lex orandi, lex credendi. My God, we are so blessed to have this!


10 posted on 01/18/2005 8:22:33 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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To: Kolokotronis; MarMema
"Say, Mr K., is there an Orthodox ping list for those of us on the East side of the City of God?"
I think Marmema runs one, though I don't know if its very formal. I'm pinging her and some others so we'll remember to ping you when appropriate.

I for one would like to see a formal Orthodox ping list, so I could join it. (If somebody sets one up, let me know -- there are a few tricks I've learned to make it easy; I keep 4 ping lists going!)

11 posted on 01/19/2005 7:36:54 AM PST by sionnsar († trad-anglican.faithweb.com † || Iran Azadi || Kiev County: http://www.soundpolitics.com)
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To: kosta50
One should not confuse the manner of worship with thoelogy. How we cross, bow or kneel, how we hold our hands when we pray, etc. is not holy in itself, but the Liturgy is Divine.

Understood. We have an almost infinite variety of manner in the Anglican church, even in the 1928 BCP churches -- and even in our church we have to harmonize practices with new servers...

12 posted on 01/19/2005 7:40:35 AM PST by sionnsar († trad-anglican.faithweb.com † || Iran Azadi || Kiev County: http://www.soundpolitics.com)
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To: sionnsar
Understood. We have an almost infinite variety of manner in the Anglican church, even in the 1928 BCP churches -- and even in our church we have to harmonize practices with new servers...

The Orthodox are very traditional and keep the manner of the worship very similar. I was fortunate enough to see Orthodox churches in Europe, America and the Far East. They are all Orthodox. The different manner of worship is subtle. For instance, the Japanese tend to kneel and bow down to the ground, but the Orthodox worship should be considered a rite and as such uniform within reason in all churches of that rite, just as Catholic Latin rite is characterized by a certain manner of worship.

What you are describing is any lack of uniformity or rite in the Anglican Church, and that is certainly not the case with the the Church of the East or the West. A rite is a tradition, but not holy; it is not a fad, or fashion.

13 posted on 01/19/2005 8:09:18 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
What you are describing is any lack of uniformity or rite in the Anglican Church, and that is certainly not the case with the the Church of the East or the West. A rite is a tradition, but not holy; it is not a fad, or fashion.

I think you're taking my statements rather a bit far. I certainly did not describe "a lack of uniformity or rite." In fact there is a lot of uniformity, even between the 1928 and 1979 BCP rites. The same elements are observed in the exact same order (with one exception, the horrid "Peace" of the '79).

And they are uniform across the spectrum of low church to high church. When I attend a '79 BCP service, I know exactly where we are in the service even if I have to read from the prayer book because the (modern) language is unfamiliar.

But it's the manner, the subtle, subtle, manner that differs. What is sung, what is said, varies from church to church, for example; the rubrics spell out the options. Bells or not. Smells or not. The number of candles on the altar. The lighting order. When one crosses one's self. Terminal prayer. These sorts of things vary, and many would not be easily discerned by somebody who did not know the traditions.

14 posted on 01/19/2005 9:20:58 AM PST by sionnsar († trad-anglican.faithweb.com † || Iran Azadi || Kiev County: http://www.soundpolitics.com)
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To: sionnsar; Kolokotronis; Agrarian; MarMema; FormerLib; Destro
I am not familiar with the Anglican church, nor do I understand what "low" and "high" church mean. I was just reacting to your statement as I perceived it, void of any in-depth knowledge of your church.

When you start citing years of different worship (1928, 1979), etc. someone like me, coming from a Church that has used the same Liturgy for 1,600 years sees a different picture. Perceptions my friend, and awareness of them, is often the key.

From what I gather, this is not just about the manner. The number of candles and the final prayers, etc. are unchanging. I am talking about American Orthodox churches having pews, being somewhat "Protestant" in their views, make-up, and using electric candles vice real, or paraffin vice beeswax, etc., or the whole church emptying the pews and receiving Communion (without confession), waving hands in the air a-la some Baptists, uniformed choir, electric organ music (St. Augustine, Florida) etc. (I have seen this in Greek churches in America and Orthodox Church of America). One unbelievable deviation in the service I have seen was in St. Augustine, Fl Greek Orthodox church, where the Liturgy was interrupted for a fund-raising, including the talk about barbecue!!!

So, don't think that the Orthodox churches are immune from various human innovations that become "tradition". The Orthodox church in some places is unrecognizable. Not that you will ever hear that from other members. We keep those secrets to ourselves. But I am a black sheep.

15 posted on 01/19/2005 1:59:10 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
I see. I'm not an historian, less a church historian, but the changes in the liturgy have apparently always been contentious affairs (except perhaps removing prayers for the king and adding the president after the Anmerican revolution, or changing the monarch's name as the monarch changed) for this very reason.

It was telling to me that, in comparing the consecration services of the 1979 and the 1928, ECUSA Bishop Robinson could not have been consecrated in the latter.

What you describe... electric candles... yikes! (The only place I've seen that is in the aumbry lamp; because it burns all the time it can be considered a fire hazard.)

16 posted on 01/19/2005 2:17:20 PM PST by sionnsar († trad-anglican.faithweb.com † || Iran Azadi || Kiev County: http://www.soundpolitics.com)
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To: sionnsar; kosta50; Agrarian; MarMema; FormerLib; Destro

Apologies for #17 to all.


18 posted on 01/19/2005 3:20:20 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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To: kosta50; sionnsar
I've been in Orthodox Churches in Greece with pews, though they are rare. Usually one sees folding chairs. In our parish, the choirs have had robes for at least 75 years and have used organs that long too, though only on a very infrequent basis and not at all the past few years. I know that choirs in the big churches in Greece wear robes. The "Protestant" attitude perception usually depends on whose ox is getting gored and where the person with the perception is coming from. The development of the Greek Orthodox Church in America lead to a protestant model of parish asset governance. On a diocesan and national level, there were moves to a greater involvement of the laity at the expense of the hierarchy, but that has pretty much gone by the boards and in any event, it was never as "democratic" as the Church of Cyprus, for example. Electric candles I have seen and as I understand it, it is because of a belief that either fire codes or insurance companies ban the use of open flames. For all I know, that is or was true in some places. We have limitations on their use here. I must say I never seen hand waving in an Orthodox Church, unless its a child waving at his papou or yiayia.

"The Orthodox church in some places is unrecognizable. Not that you will ever hear that from other members. We keep those secrets to ourselves. But I am a black sheep."

Black sheep!!! More like Balkan Mountain Bandit...like me, of course. Besides, you're a Serb; Serbs are like Greeks, only less notorious and more polite, usually.
19 posted on 01/19/2005 3:52:13 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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To: crazykatz; don-o; JosephW; lambo; MoJoWork_n; newberger; Petronski; The_Reader_David; Stavka2; ...

Actually, I'd be the one guilt of maintaining an Orthodox Ping list.

Please let me know if you would like to be added or removed from this list. Thanks.


20 posted on 01/19/2005 4:19:19 PM PST by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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