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To: RnMomof7
you show me where He declared them to all the other nations around Israel?

Sure:

Lev 23:4 These [are] the feasts of the LORD, [even] holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

Since God proclaims these as his feasts, he is proclaiming it to anyone who claims to follow him. There is a worldwide religion called Christianity. Christianity is based upon the teachings of Christ. Christ observed the holy days...scrupulously and often. Therefore every Christian should follow in his steps.

I could celebrate your birthday and anniversary , but it has no meaning to me ..THEY ARE YOUR DAYS

You've stumbled upon a great analogy. If I were your husband would you observe my birthday? Of course you would. Why? Because you love me and recognize that it is special to me. You don't do it because you think I'll like you better or because I asked you to. You do it because you know it's MY birthday. In the same way, these ARE God's holy days. They are the holy days of our Lord, Jesus Christ. I love Christ so I recognize and observe HIS holy days.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. Zec 14:17 And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Doug one of the priorities of good hermeneutics is to look at the audience ...WHO WAS THAT WRITTEN TO? Was he a prophet to the Greeks the romans and the heathen nations?

It's a prophecy of the future kingdom, when Christ returns to earth Terry. You can choose to believe that Zechariah was a prophet inspired by God in vision to write this...or you can blow him off. It really doesn't matter because GOD says that all nations will celebrate his feasts when Christ returns. Start now Terry. Get rid of man made traditions and observe the only holy days ever created or sanctioned by God.

Did Luke keep the Jewish feasts? What of Stephen the man chose as the first martyr?
Of course they did. These days were part of the culture and life of their society at the time...just like holidays in the United States are to most people today.
Could you show me where they ever "celebrated" them. THEY WERE NOT JEWS, THE WERE GREEKS .
Non Jews did not celebrate Jewish holy days...that was a Hellenistic/ Roman , pagan culture. Those were not 'cultural days' Doug.

Nonsense Terry. Here is scripture that says that non-Jews celebrated God's feast days:

Joh 12:20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:

The problem with using this verse in support of NOT observing Christ's holy days is that it doesn't mention the holy days. The NT when referring to God's Holy days uses the word: LOL yea , and you do not like it . On the other hand you will take a verse written to Jews and try to apply it to Gentiles. The meaning IN CONTEXT is clear Doug

You don't have to believe me. Do the word study. Feast days is one word. A regular day is another. Sorry.

The meaning and significance of these words are clear Doug. He is dealing with the fact that Jews were trying to Judaize the Gentiles.

Thanks for posting Romans 14. Read it again. It never once mentions any of Gods holy days. The focus of the chapter is on food. Most likely the issue was a controversy about eating...whether or not to fast on certain days or whether or not to be vegetarians.

Yet Paul says that the feast days ARE...not WERE...ARE a shadow of things to come. ARE a shadow. Why does Paul believe, 20 years after the death of Christ, that the feast days ARE a shadow of things yet future, things yet to come? The answer of course is that they are. Christ will return...the fall feasts picture the return of Christ and the millenial kingdom. Doug he says ARE because they were and are yet today a SIGN TO THE JEWS .

No Terry, he says they ARE a shadow of things to come. He does not say they are a sign to the Jews. That's your addition.

For all of time men have sought their own righteousness. They think that somehow they are holy because they are doing what they perceive as holy . For most of professing trinitarian Christianity Christ fulfilled the law perfectly . Every time you refuse a piece of pork or shell fish you deny Christ's sufficiency . You deny the imputed righteousness of Christ in the believer.

I believe in the complete sufficiency of Christ for salvation. I observe Gods holy days because I love God, they are his and I want to honor and obey him. Doing it doesn't earn me a thing...they are the result of my salvation.

71 posted on 01/11/2005 5:29:34 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC
You show me where He declared them to all the other nations around Israel?
Sure:
Lev 23:4 These [are] the feasts of the LORD, [even] holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

Doug who wrote the book of leviticus ? Who was it written for?

CONTEXT DOUG

Lev 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, [Concerning] the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim [to be] holy convocations, [even] these [are] my feasts.

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day [is] the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work [therein]: it [is] the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Lev 23:4 These [are] the feasts of the LORD, [even] holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

Doug this was a law given to Moses to be GIVEN TO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL

The problem with cults are they bend scripture to make it fit.

Sorry , Doug those are days for the jews..

73 posted on 01/11/2005 7:14:43 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: DouglasKC
I never got to the rest of this post yesterday sorry

..I asked .WHO WAS THAT WRITTEN TO? Was he a prophet to the Greeks the romans and the heathen nations?( meaning Zechariah )

It's a prophecy of the future kingdom, when Christ returns to earth Terry. You can choose to believe that Zechariah was a prophet inspired by God in vision to write this...or you can blow him off. It really doesn't matter because GOD says that all nations will celebrate his feasts when Christ returns. Start now Terry. Get rid of man made traditions and observe the only holy days ever created or sanctioned by God.

Doug , each of the prophets were sent to a specific target audience. Who was the audience that this prophet was sent to? It was the returning remnant OF Jews. His prophecy was for them .

I asked you before, will they be offering sacrifices for sin? Will animals be slain as mans substitutes? They are a part of the Jewish law are they not? Does your church believe that they too should be re instituted?

Doug, I am not the one that has man made observances, your church does. It advocates, no demands, that you observe the legalism that the Jews believed would save them . The one remembrance we have of Gods work is the one given when the passover was eliminated as a sign . I observe the One that Jesus ordained.. "Do this in remembrance of ME " ( no longer in memory of the passing over of the angel )

Nonsense Terry. Here is scripture that says that non-Jews celebrated God's feast days:
Joh 12:20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:

There was always a "mixed multitude" Doug, heck there was a court of the gentile in the temple. That is not the issue at all.

If it was a common and accepted practice it would not have been mentioned here the there were "CERTAIN Greeks" that came . That was not the general practice of the greeks ,( remember the discourse to them in acts? ) These were Greek proselytes that were expected to observe the holy days

Thanks for posting Romans 14. Read it again. It never once mentions any of Gods holy days. The focus of the chapter is on food. Most likely the issue was a controversy about eating...whether or not to fast on certain days or whether or not to be vegetarians.

It encompasses all the law ....but you also observe the dietary laws do you not ? So it is relevant to you.

However it does mention the holy days ( and Sabbath keeping)

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it].....

consider

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

Yet Paul says that the feast days ARE...not WERE...ARE a shadow of things to come. ARE a shadow. Why does Paul believe, 20 years after the death of Christ, that the feast days ARE a shadow of things yet future, things yet to come? The answer of course is that they are. Christ will return...the fall feasts picture the return of Christ and the millenial kingdom. Doug he says ARE because they were and are yet today a SIGN TO THE JEWS .
No Terry, he says they ARE a shadow of things to come. He does not say they are a sign to the Jews. That's your addition.

No, the shadow was a foreshadow of Christ and the church .

From Matthew Henry

v. 16. Much of the ceremonies of the law of Moses consisted in the distinction of meats and days. It appears by Rom. 14 that there were those who were for keeping up those distinctions: but here the apostle shows that since Christ has come, and has cancelled the ceremonial law, we ought not to keep it up. "Let no man impose those things upon you, for God has not imposed them: if God has made you free, be not you again entangled in that yoke of bondage.’’ And this the rather because these things were shadows of things to come (v. 17), intimating that they had no intrinsic worth in them and that they are now done away. But the body is of Christ: the body, of which they were shadows, has come; and to continue the ceremonial observances, which were only types and shadows of Christ and the gospel, carries an intimation that Christ has not yet come and the gospel state has not yet commenced. Observe the advantages we have under the gospel, above what they had under the law: they had the shadows, we have the substance.

From Wesley

Verse 16.   Therefore - Seeing these things are so. Let none judge you - That is, regard none who judge you. In meat or drink - For not observing the ceremonial law in these or any other particulars. Or in respect of a yearly feast, the new moon, or the weekly Jewish sabbaths. Verse 17.   Which are but a lifeless shadow; but the body, the substance, is of Christ.

From Darby

The apostle does so here with regard to the Person of Christ, which alone could bring them back to it; and at the same time he develops the efficacy of His work in this respect, in order to set them free from the shackles that kept them back, and to shew them that all obstacles had been removed. But in detail he has to apply it to the dangers that beset them rather than to display its glorious results in heaven.
Jewish ordinances were but shadows, Christ is the substance.

From Gill

The "sabbaths" were also shadows of future things; the grand sabbatical year, or the fiftieth year sabbath, or jubilee, in which liberty was proclaimed throughout the land, a general release of debts, and restoration of inheritances, prefigured the liberty we have by Christ from sin, Satan, and the law, the payment of all our debts by Christ, and the right we have through him to the heavenly and incorruptible inheritance.
The seventh year sabbath, in which there was no tilling of the land, no ploughing, sowing, nor reaping, was an emblem of salvation through Christ by free grace, and not by the works of men; and the seventh day sabbath was a type of that spiritual rest we have in Christ now, and of that eternal rest we shall have with him in heaven hereafter: now these were but shadows, not real things; or did not contain the truth and substance of the things themselves, of which they were shadows; and though they were representations of divine and spiritual things, yet dark ones, they had not so much as the very image of the things; they were but shadows, and like them fleeting and passing away, and now are gone:

but the body [is] of Christ: or, as the Syriac version reads it, "the body is Christ"; that is, the body, or sum and substance of these shadows, is Christ; he gave rise unto them, he existed before them, as the body is before the shadow; not only as God, as the Son of God, but as Mediator, whom these shadows regarded as such, and as such he cast them; and he is the end of them, the fulfilling end of them; they have all their accomplishment in him: and he is the body of spiritual and heavenly things; the substantial things and doctrines of the Gospel are all of Christ, they all come by him; all the truths, blessings, and promises of grace; are from him and by him, and he himself the sum of them all. The allusion seems to be to a way of speaking among the Jews, who were wont to call the root, foundation, substance, and essence of a thing, apwg, "the body of it" {n}: so they say {o}, "the constitutions concerning the sanctification of the offerings and the tithes, are, both the one and the other, hrwt ypwg, "the bodies," or substantial parts of the law:"

and again {p}, that "the constitutions or rules about the sabbath, the festivals and prevarications, they are as mountains that hang by an hair; for the Scripture is small, and the constitutions are many; the judgments and the services, the purifications and uncleannesses, and the incests, they have, upon which they can support themselves, and these, and these, are hrwt ypwg, "the bodies of the law":" they say {q} of a small section, or paragraph, that all the bodies of the law depend upon it: once more {r}, "the sabbaths, and the good days (the feasts or holy days) are Npwg, "the bodies" of the sign;" which the phylacteries or frontlets were for; but our apostle says, that Christ is the body and substance of all these shadows, in opposition to these sayings and notions of the Jews: some connect this last clause with the former part of the following verse, rendering it as the Arabic version thus, "because of the communion of the body of Christ, let no man condemn you"; and the Ethiopic version thus, "and let no man account you fools, because of the body of Christ," but there is nothing in the text to support these versions.

{n} Vid. Misn. Abot, c. 3. sect. 18. & Bartenora in ib. & Halicot Olam, par. 2. c. 1. p. 48. {o} T. Bab. Sabbat, fol. 32. 1. {p} Misn. Chagiga, c. 1. sect. 8. T. Bab. Chagiga, fol. 11. 2. {q} T. Bab. Beracot, fol. 63. 1. {r} T. Bab. Menachot, fol. 36. 2. Vid. T. Bab. Ceritot, fol. 5. 1.

Doug, what I have presented is the prevailing view of professing Christianity, that should tell you something about what you are being taught

I believe in the complete sufficiency of Christ for salvation. I observe Gods holy days because I love God, they are his and I want to honor and obey him. Doing it doesn't earn me a thing...they are the result of my salvation.

Those that keep legalisms deny the sufficiency of Christ. Doug, the sheet has been lowered, all things are declared clean , all days are holy and worthy of remembrance of Christ and his work

If that observance of jewish law and legalisms was an outgrowth of ones salvation, then all the saved would be moved to observe them by the indwelling Holy Spirit

Jhn 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

2Cr 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.

Legalism and bondage is not a mark of salvation

79 posted on 01/12/2005 1:27:40 PM PST by RnMomof7
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