Posted on 01/07/2005 7:47:31 PM PST by DouglasKC
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved
That's not a quote from God. ;-)
RnMomof7 in #118: BTW porfessing Christianity does not consider the World Wide Church of Christ as a part of professing Christianity because of the denial of the trinity ...
Read post 117 before you jump to conclusions...
No , that was not the issue.
You have chosen to try to redefine the discussion
Psa 3:8 Salvation belongeth unto the LORD:thy blessing is upon thy people.Selah.
Zec 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he [is] just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
The only Saviour is YHWH.
I couldn't agree more ET.
I'm thankful to God that he's the one that judges me...:-)
So then the only means to salvation is not to have faith in Christ ... there are 2 kinds of people in heaven and those there by faith and those there by birthright?
It is for us that believe in the inspiration of the Holy Spirit
Nope, only one way, through Christ. I believe that the great white throne scene in Revelation 20 describes the preaching of the gospel to those who died without knowing Christ.
Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.
The purpose of the law was to show us we needed a Saviour.
Why are you stuck on that same old line "you must do it perfectly"? Jesus told you all you had to do was REPENT, love God, and love your neighbor. The scripture Jesus studied, the OT, says the same thing.
Now, regarding your reference to James...
IT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED BY MANY BIBLICAL SCHOLARS, THAT THE BOOK OF JAMES DESCRIBES THE ACTUAL TEACHINGS OF JESUS' BROTHER JAMES. THROUGH THESE VERSES, FROM THE BOOK OF JAMES, YOU WILL CLEARLY SEE THAT THE THEOLOGY OF JAMES IS MUCH MORE IN LINE WITH THAT OF JESUS AND IN OPPOSITION TO PAUL'S. YOU WILL SEE THAT JAMES NOT ONLY DID NOT ADVOCATE DOING AWAY WITH THE LAW, BUT MAKES IT CLEAR THAT WITHOUT THE LAW "FAITH" IS DEAD. PAUL WE KNOW OFTEN STATED THAT "FAITH" WAS ALL THAT YOU NEEDED AND THAT THE LAW WAS DEAD.
JAM002:008 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
JAM002:009 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
JAM002:010 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
JAM002:011 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
JAM002:012 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
JAM002:013 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
JAM002:014 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
JAM002:015 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
JAM002:016 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
JAM002:017 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
JAM002:018 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
JAM002:019 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
JAM002:020 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
JAM002:021 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
JAM002:022 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
JAM002:023 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
JAM002:024 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
JAM002:025 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
JAM002:026 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
AS YOU SEE, JAMES STATED THAT YOU CAN NOT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE AND IS IN DIRECT CONFLICT WITH PAUL.
HOW CAN THEY BOTH BE SPEAKING THE WORD OF GOD? WHAT JAMES WROTE CERTAINLY SEEMED TO BE MORE IN LINE WITH WHAT JESUS SAID THAN WHAT WE READ IN PAUL'S EPISTLES. HAD JAMES' POINT OF VIEW WON OUT OVER PAUL'S, CHRISTIANITY WOULD BE VERY DIFFERENT TODAY. I AM COMPELLED TO SAY THAT THE CHRISTIANITY OF JAMES WOULD BE FAR MORE COMPATIBLE WITH JESUS' TEACHINGS, AND JUDAISM GENERALLY, THAN THE THEOLOGY OF PAUL.
WOULD YOU BELIEVE JAMES OR A MAN LIKE PAUL, WHO NOT ONLY NEVER MET JESUS, BUT KILLED PEOPLE FOR FOLLOWING JESUS' TEACHINGS?
Sorry for the caps. Taken from the link i posted earlier.
http://www.mindspring.com/~sjayg7/sample.htm
Is it your assertion that YHWH and Jesus are one and the same?
No. It was the assertion of the writers of the new testament and Jesus Christ himself. I believe them.
"And he saith to me, Seal not the words of the prophecy of this booklet; for the season is nigh. Who is unrighteous, let him be unrighteous still: and who is filthy, let him be made filthy still: and who is righteous, let him do righteousness still: and who is holy, let him be made holy still." Revelation 22:10-11
There is a distinction between Jews and "natural Israel" and Spiritual Israel . Only those who accept Jesus the Christ will be saved
. The Israel of God is not the natural nation Israel, but Spiritual Israel is circumcised of the heart and not the flesh. It is made up of members of all peoples who have, through Christ, entered into a personal relationship with Christ by faith
"If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to promise." Galatians 3:29
I won't wait too long since I already know there isn't any such verse. Jesus never ever flat out claims or states that he is YHWH/G-d. It is always everyone else's insinuations.
Show me a scripture that says there is a "second chance " to be saved after death
That is VERY MORMON
They are not in conflict, but agreement. What has happened is that Pauls words have been twisted throughout history, beginning in biblical times:
2Pe 3:15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
The untaught and unstable are those who don't understand the law or the covenants...you konw..the ones who think that everything in the books of the old testament are irrelevent. They twist Pauls meanings to mean that man has license to sin under Christ because the law is "done away with". James addresses this, as does Paul.
;^)
5.56mm
While we are at it Doug, can you post a verse from Acts where anyone had to profess that Jesus was G-d so they could be 'saved'?
This describes the elect, those who were called in their lifetime:
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
The next verse refers to the rest, who were not called in their lifetime:
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed..
Back to the elect:
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
And then back to the first chance for these people:
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds
Calvinists generally don't accept this because it seems like they believe that they are the elect and disregard that anyone else gets a later calling.
RE: Ahhh another one that denies the divinity of Christ comes to Dougs rescue.
1) I deny a trinity...but not that Jesus had the divine within him.
2) You call this a rescue?
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