Archbishop Flynn Creating Fairyland in Minnesota Parishes?

Catholic Citizens of Illinois ^ | December 28, 2004

[Land of the Irish]

Since his project began, there have been many successes, including: a student-written publication, The Rainbow Journey, which focuses on gay and lesbian student issues; "liturgies celebrating diversity," commissioning rituals for safe staff; "lots and lots of articles and op-ed pieces in school newspapers," one of which, "Is God Homophobic?," was "a real barn-burner . . . a lightning rod for discussion in the parishes"

[Land of the Irish]

Ping

[IrishCatholic]

My elderly father doesn't see the erosion that has hit the church. Maybe this will wake him up.

[Palladin]

Unbelievable!

These parents should withdraw both their children and their cash from these tainted schools. Pooling their resources, they can open truly Catholic schools, and employ teachers who believe in and teach the Magisterium.

[JesseHousman]

...eleven Catholic high schools in the Archdiocese of St. Paul-Minneapolis into "gay-friendly" schools.

If these "Catholics" put up with this evil they are as guilty as the Archbishop and the gaggle of imbeciles that populate his diocesan offices.

Unfortunately, many Catholics are completely ignorant of the fact, as is our ailing and aging pope, that Vatican II was part and parcel of the USSR's program to bring down Christ's Church on Earth.

Prior to 1950 the Kremlin issued orders to their operatives to begin infiltration of the Catholic Church in order to bring about its collapse.

Willing and necessary allies in this effort were the homosexuals who floated through the seminaries as if by magic! (Black magic, that is, and helped along by the communist priests and bishops who by that time had ascended into positions of power.)

Now the God-less communists had a juggernaut in operation that would smash the Church and completely confuse the communicants.

Today we indeed can view the "fruits" of the communist-homosexual onslaught of the once great Roman Catholic Church!

Priest after priest has been "outed" to the glee of the communists who indeed control the Church. They have played their homosexual allies like Hitler played Ernst Rohm in Nazi Germany.

Thanks to God the Church hasn't completely disintegrated as hundreds of chapels of the Society of St. Pius X that have appeared throughout America and the world.

The parish churches have sunk about as low as they can get. New construction has been completed of churches that look more like airplane hangers than temples to glorify our Lord.

Confessionals are moved into back rooms; stations of the cross are sometimes non-existant, and one has a difficult time locating the Tabernacle that is supposed to house Our Lord and Savior!

All parishoners need to get desperately busy and drive out the evils of modernism that has overtaken Christ's Church!

This pope and his predecessors will have to do a great deal of explaining to our Maker as to why they let this evil continue unabated.

I would surmise that they will fail miserably and spend eternity with the communists and homosexuals whose agenda swept on unabated.

[JesseHousman]

I don't believe there is a parish in America that isn't tainted by homosexuals, socialists and their sycophants.

[Land of the Irish]

My elderly father doesn't see the erosion that has hit the church. Maybe this will wake him up.

He reminds me of several posters on this forum.

[ultima ratio]

It's true the Pope is ailing. But he has known for decades this problem is deeply entrenched in the seminaries and in the hierarchy itself. There has been absolutely no attempt to fire anybody or reform anything as a result. The only people fired recently were traditionalist priests--the superior general of the FSSP Indult fraternity and two of his teaching theologians--on a minor issue relating to whether or not the priests of the fraternity should be allowed to concelebrate with Novus Ordo priests. There have been absolutely no efforts made towards any kind of reform of the lavender seminaries whatsoever. Meanwhile open corruption and apostasy are tolerated.

[JesseHousman]

I know.

It's extremely difficult for me (as well as others, I would hope) to cut this pope any slack for his conscious avoidance of matters that truly are the province of a holy father.

Instead, he has been busy entertaining all those of other "faiths," kissing korans, meeting with atheistic voodoists, traveling to polynesian islands to watch bare-breasted heathens dancing for his pleasure.

Meanwhile, the Church which stood as a beacon and an example for other Christian faiths, rapidly slides down the filthy slopes to hell taking with it all those who believe the're being faithful while attending sacreligious rites that pass for masses.

[Kolokotronis]

So very, very evil. So does one stay with the developing Roman "ECUSA", or does one flee for the sake of one's soul and the souls of one's family? How does a parent protect a child growing up in this church? Its not as if you all don't have an alternative.

[k omalley]

"Its not as if you all don't have an alternative."

Do you think that there is a chance that Orthodoxy will eventually follow the rest of the Christian churches down the slippery slope? I'm not challenging you, just wondering.

[Diago]

bump

[solitas]

Who runs the vatican these days - and why do the American congregants put up with what's happening?

Pick a month, or two, to take your empty envelope, tear it in half, and drop it in the basket every Sunday.

If enough people actually DO it then the local hierarchy will take notice. Words are ineffectual compared to 'hitting them where it hurts' (the collection basket). Call it fiscal hostage-taking, call it extortion, call it a supposed sin against the church - call it: the right thing to do to get their attention and force them to do the right thing. Money can be restored when things are running the way you want them to be run.

[Kolokotronis]

"Do you think that there is a chance that Orthodoxy will eventually follow the rest of the Christian churches down the slippery slope? I'm not challenging you, just wondering."

Nope! We are famous for not having had a new theological idea since the end of the 7th Ecumenical Council! :)

Seriously, the apparent meltdown of ECUSA, at least one branch of the Lutherans, the UCC, etc, etc, etc and finally the turmoil within the Roman Catholic Church here in America (and the empty pews in Europe) have given great pause to our hierarchs in their ongoing discussions with various Christian denominations and with the Church of Rome. The real truth is that what is going on around us is frightening. The result has been, especially over the past 10 years or so, and increasing and conservative, perhaps I should say, traditional Orthodox catechesis of the laity and the rather astonishingly large increase in the number of priestly vocations resulting in very conservative young ordinands. It wasn't all that long ago that Greek priests, by their garb, were indistinguishable from the local Roman Catholic and Episcopalian priests. Now the young guys wear their clerical hats and cassocks just about everywhere and are readily identified as Orthodox priests. The large numbers of converts coming into the Church from Protestantism have brought a certain American style conservatism and a real experience with the way the modern American mind works in religious matters. All of this seems to have confirmed and strengthened Orthodoxy's usual conservatism and as an interesting sidelight, has rather dramatically changed the focus of the autocephally debate with the Church here in America.

I think we are safe for now and the continuing decline of Christianity in America may well keep us vigilant for the foreseeable future. Orthodoxy has had a lot of experience with this, you know, 1400 years of it in some parts of the Mohammedan world. Just today after the Liturgy we were remarking on how all those years under the Mohammedans actually preserved the Faith, in a strange sort of way.

[AlbionGirl]

I'm afraid that the homosexual element in the Church is here to stay, and here to flourish with the aid of many 'right thinking Catholics.'

The best the laity can hope for is that these people overplay their hand in such a grotesque fashion, so as to truly show all their cards, but I don't think they're that stupid.

The Roman Catholic laity is flaccid, because being flaccid has suited him and her too.

Ease, the laity is looking for ease, in the main. That's the reason the Liturgical abuses were allowed to advance, unimpeded. The laity just saw this as a concomitant to the easing of other rules, aided and abetted by a Clergy that promulgated the abuses first, or resisted not at all, and/or was unwilling to fill the laity with some real turgor, to marshall discipline.

To the best of my knowledge, Canon Law still admonishes us to fast from meat on Friday. Again, as far as I know, that stricture has not been rescinced. Yet, not only were we not encouraged to hold to that stricture, we were basically told not to fret about it. That's just one example, I'm sure there are quite a few more, and probably of greater import.

And I shouldn't even be allowed to speak in these terms, because I abandoned ship and then returned, the worst kind of Catholic, really.

That being said, though, I still have ears to hear, and eyes to see, and anyone that doesn't see self-proclaimed homosexuals ascending the Altar, and 'assisting' the Mass, and proclaiming their right to 'hold' and distribute the Eucharist in 10 years or so, is blind to the bone-deep degradation of the past 40 years.

To be sure, there will be bouts of assertion, but they will be to no avail, we are without the power to reign in the beasts. I'm hoping that the next Pope, will be able to turn things around, but admittedly the likelihood of that occurring is not very great.

I'm just now starting to realize why a Church, such as the RCC needs a PR Firm, and why Saint Peter, and Saint Paul did not.

[k omalley]

I read on Touchstones website some time back about there being talk about reforming the Orthodox liturgy. I just looked back on their website and can't find it but I remember that the article stated that converts to Orthodoxy were distressed with this idea, having seen the shambles of liturgical reform in other churches, Catholicism in particular. You know, "been there, done that." It seems like major liturgical reform opens Pandora's box, especially as has been the case with ECUSA and Catholicism. Do you know anything about a movement to reform Orthodox liturgy?

[broadsword]

My elderly father doesn't see the erosion that has hit the church. Maybe this will wake him up. He reminds me of several posters on this forum.

SOME don't see it as erosion at all, but a new springtime of the Church, and bubble that the most reverent Mass they ever attended was presided over by a gay priest.

With "friends" like these, the Church does not need enemies.

[Kolokotronis]

I found the article you refer to, I think. Here's a link: http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=12-04-110-r

It appears that the provocateur in the article is a Byzantine Rite Catholic priest. The article talks about "inclusive" language and notes that the Byzantine and Eastern Rite Catholics seem to have bought into it, but the Orthodox have not. The Greek Orthodox representative at the conference said that such talk was seen as "revisionist" in the GOA. Beyond this article, I have neither seen nor heard of any writing or talk of "liturgical reform" in the Orthodox Churches; that is unless you mean using English in the Liturgy, which really isn't quite the change that moving to English from Latin was in the Roman Church.

I sincerely doubt we will see any liturgical "reform" of the Divine Liturgy at any time. There simply is no actual or perceived need among the Orthodox faithful for such a reform.

[k omalley]

"I sincerely doubt we will see any liturgical reform of the Divine Liturgy at any time."

Oh, thank goodness. I had this awful vision of an Orthodox priest walking among the worshipers with a microphone, telling jokes. Incense had been banished, inclusive language was in, and the choir was chanting "Let Us Build the City of God." ;-)

[Kolokotronis]

;); I don't think so! Don't worry! We'll just continue on being our old, irrelevant, un pc, disconnested, incense pickled selves. If you ever want a good cup of cafe, or a nice piece of baklava, stop by!