Kingdom Living - Dallas Willard

Interviewed by Andy Peck for Christianity + Renewal magazine, a United Kingdom publication, May 2002.

AP: In your first book, Spirit of the Disciplines, you pose the question "are we disciples of Jesus or merely Christians by modern standards?" Clearly you are concerned about the state of discipleship in the American Church. What alarms you most?

DW: That the issue of discipleship is thought of as totally irrelevant to being a Christian which carries over to obedience to Christ’s teaching. The basic question ‘will I obey Christ ’s teaching?’ is rarely taken as a serious issue. For example, to take one of Jesus’ commands, that is relevant to contemporary life, I don’t know of any church that actually teaches a church how to bless people who curse them, yet this is a clear command. And there is plenty of cursing going on, especially on roads! We must remember that Jesus says ‘how can you call me Lord, Lord, but not do the things that I say?’

AP: You say in The Divine Conspiracy that there is a lack of teaching in the church on the kingdom.

DW: This is the reason why people, including pastors, don't see the need for discipleship. What you present as the gospel, will determine what you present asdiscipleship. If you present as the gospel what is essentially a theory of the atonement and you say if you accept this theory of the atonement, your sins are forgiven and when you die you will be received into heaven, there is no basis for discipleship.

I ask pastors 'does your gospel have a natural tendency to produce disciples? By disciple I mean someone who is learning from Jesus how to lead their life as he would lead their life if he were in their place. The New Testament defines a disciple as someone who is with Jesus learning how to be more like him.

But if your gospel focuses on the gospel of the kingdom, that we are invited to live in the kingdom of God then the basis for discipleship becomes clear. The new birth should be seen as an entrance into the kingdom of God. John Chapter 3 is not a 'forgiveness of sins' passage but a new life from above passage. Forgiveness from sins is essential - but it is not the whole package. One of the main barriers is that people see the teachings of Christ as laws that they have to obey. They are not. They are expressions of the life that comes to you, through the new birth and is naturally disposed to develop a new kind of person inside.

So when many look at the teachings of Christ, they are demoralised. They say, "I have to do these as I now am?" Of course it's impossible, but if you say instead that this is the sort of person I can become, then they open up and appear as things that are good and not an imposition.

AP: This links in what you say in the Divine Conspiracy about ways in which Christians, including Bible scholars, have understood the Sermon on the Mount.

DW: I believe that the greatest gift of Jesus, outside the gift of himself and 'regeneration' is the Sermon on the Mount. But the way most interpret it actually makes it sound like bad news. This extends for example to the Beatitudes. People read: 'Blessed are the Poor' and say, 'oh I've got to become poor in order to be blessed'. This is a total misunderstanding of his teaching. All of his teaching is about the kingdom of God, entering the kingdom of God through faith in him and the process of being transformed so that the kinds of behaviour taught, and indeed the old law, are a natural expression of who we have become…

…When you look at the Bible you see that the kingdom of God is God acting. It is the range of God’s effective will. When I pray ‘thy kingdom come, thy will be done’ I am praying first that God’s will may be done in my own life and then around me. This is the open door for his teachings, for it is his effective will that I bless and don’t curse, that I let my yes be yes and my no be no, that I not be motivated by anger and contempt etc … (as outlined in the Sermon on the Mount). So as someone who is living in the kingdom, I am praying that this may become a true expression of who I am by inner transformation. Discipleship is learning how to do that…

AP: In your book, ‘In Searching for Guidance’, you write of the danger of seeing Bible characters as super saints. Some books say that God does not communicate directly to us outside of the Bible and others that he is always speaking to us. You take a different line.

DW: I have read those same books. What we should focus on here is not guidance or hearing from God, but the kind of life within which guidance makes sense. So many people would like to have guidance from God because obviously if you have a word from God, it’s the best possible thing. But they don’t relate that to life as a whole. Often they want guidance as a way of opting out of the responsibility of making decisions. In the book I point out that one of the main functions of the life in which guidance makes sense is to develop us as people who are capable of making decisions. God may not guide us in an obvious way because he wants us to make decisions based on faith and character. The problem with the What Would Jesus Do (WWJD) movement is that in most cases Jesus would not have to ask the question. He would know. This is what we are expected to grow into.

But having said that God can and does give clear guidance and clear words. We need this, in part because of the need to evaluate the sort of guidance people may wish to impose on us. It is also invaluable especially when there is a manifestation of kingdom gifts...

This is an excerpt. Please click on Source to read the full interview.

Questions for discussion:

Do you feel there should be more emphasis (in your church or in your life) on LIVING the gospel, walking the walk, or trying to follow Christ?

Do you consider yourself a "disciple" of Christ? Why or why not? Is Willard's definition of "disciple" an accurate one?

I don't want this to degenerate into a faith vs. works argument...We know that God's grace alone can save us. Why then would trying to be more Christlike be important? Will doing these Christlike actions automatically, naturally come forth as a result of a new birth, or might we need to work at them a bit?

How does God give us "clear guidance and clear words"? Is guidance only to be found in the Bible?

Just curious what my fellow FReepers have to say about this. These are things I'm struggling with myself. I would love to hear any insights y'all have as to how to improve your spiritual life, and how to be a better disciple.

Thanks in anticipation.

"I would love to hear any insights y'all have as to how to improve your spiritual life, and how to be a better disciple."

2 Cor. 8:9 Amp. 9. For you are becoming progressively acquainted with and recognizing more strongly and clearly the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ (His kindness, His gracious generosity, His undeserved favor and spiritual blessing), [in] that though He was [so very] rich, yet for your sakes He became [so very] poor, in order that by His poverty you might become enriched (abundantly supplied).

Case closed.

"How does His grace make me a better disciple?"

2 Cor 9:8 Amp:8. And God is able to make all grace (every favor and [c]earthly blessing) come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need be self-sufficient [possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation].

There ya go :o)

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.