| If oral sex in marriage is a sin, then I'm a DEAD MAN! (especially if my wife finds out I posted this) |
Posted on 12/15/2004 3:35:31 PM PST by walden
I only came to faith a couple of years ago, so my knowledge of the bible is still very lacking, which is why I'm asking these questions. My question is, is there any biblical indication that certain sexual practices (for example, oral sex) are forbidden between a married couple? What does the bible say about sex within marriage? It would help me a lot if folks responding could cite chapter and verse.
Thanks!
Read First Corinithians. It has a lot about the relationship between husband and wife.
What if a woman has had a hysterectomy?
If what you claim is true, then a person should only have sex during the time frame when a woman is fertile. That kind of eliminates the practice of the rhythm method of birth control; doesn't it?
As for the "Song of Songs" condoning marital sodomy...
If it is within marriage, its not sodomy. I don't think Song of Songs says anything about contraception. Where do you find scripture that says that sex is only appropriate if the wife could become pregnant? Sex within marriage serves many purposes other than procreation. Aside from the pleasure it should bring, it helps create an emotional and spiritual bond between a husband and wife.
But according to all Christian history except the last 100 years, any type of sex that precludes contraception when its all said and done, is sodomitic in nature.
Your source for this comment. Even if true, it doesn't make it correct.
See the writings of Luther, Calvin, and the other reformers regarding the Onan incident if you need further proof.
You claim this to be true, you supple the sources. What makes you think they got it right. Last time I looked, the Roman Catholic Church does seem to have a real positive view of Luther or Calvin. I'm not all that impressed with Calvin myself, but for far different reasons. Maybe his wife died at a young age, in part, from sexual frustration. it's not like Calvin was a real lovable or affectionate type of guy.
Thanks for sharing.
Do you make it a habit of taking comments out of context? Pretty dishonest if you ask me. Seeing how you fail to provide sources, a reasonable person would conclude you don't have them or are too lazy to post them.
Thank you, everyone, for your replies. I will continue reading, but The Song of Solomon was one part of the OT I had read, and I find any sort of strait-laced view of marital sexuality difficult to reconcile with it. Along with several of the NT passages indicated, I had concluded that God wants us to be happy in our marriages, and I am glad to see that many here agree with that view. ;)
I agree some of those names and all those begats in the Torah are not easy reading.
They would have been very relevant to their first readers. The geneologies in, say, Ezra and Neamiah would have been their ancestors from a couple generations past. Those lists would have given them a place in their history.
Protestant Theologians on the Onan Incident and Birth Control
"His sin was extremely heinous, not only as it proceeded from envy of his brother's honor, and contempt of the promised seed, but as it was horrid and unnatural in itself." (John Brown, Presbyterian, 1722-1787)
"This is always a shameful sin, yet much more atrocious than a case of incest or adultery: we call it a sin of the effeminate, indeed, even a sin of Sodomy .. therefore it was quite right for God to kill him." (Abraham Calovius, Lutheran, 1612-1686)
"The voluntary spilling of semen outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous ... if any woman ejects a fetus from her womb by drugs, it is reckoned a crime incapable of expiation and deservedly Onan incurred upon himself the same kind of punishment." (John Calvin, 1509-1564)
"The sin of self-pollution, which is generally considered to be that of Onan, is one of the most destructive evils ever practiced by fallen man. In many respects it is far worse than common whoredom, and has in its train more awful consequences ... God, and God alone, can save thee from an evil which has in its issue the destruction of the body, and the final perdition of thy soul! Whether this may have been the sin of Onan, or not, is a matter at present of small moment - it may be thy sin, therefore take heed, lest God slay thee for it." (Adam Clarke, Methodist, 1762-1832)
"God destests and punishes shameful acts. Shortness of life for the wicked is the punishment of sins. The sin of effeminacy and voluntary pouring out of the seed is contrary to nature: this in itself is compared by the Hebrews to homicide. Thomas argues that this is more serious than homicide." (Johann Gerhard, Lutheran, 1582-1637)
"This was so much the worse because the Messiah was to descend from Judah, and had he [Onan] not been guilty of this wickedness, he might have had the honor of being one of his ancestors. Note, those sins that dishonour the body and defile it are very displeasing to God and the evidences of vile affections." (Matthew Henry, 1662-1714)
"Onan's sin, a deadly wickedness, an example to be held in abhorrence, as condemnatory, not only of secret sins of self-pollution, but also of all similar offences in sexual relations, and even in marriage itself ... Onan's offence ... was a most unnatural wickedness, and a grievous wrong. The sin named after him is destructive as a pestilence that walketh in darkness, destroying directly the body and the soul of the young." (Johann Peter Lange, Reformed, 1802-1884)
"Onan must have been a malicious and incorrigible scoundrel. This is a most disgraceful sin. It is far more atrocious than incest and adultery. We call it unchastity, yes, a Sodomitic sin ... that worthless fellow refused to exercise love. He preferred polluting himself with a most disgraceful sin to raising up offspring for his brother." (Martin Luther, 1483-1546)
"For the sin of Onan, it was most detestable, because it was unnatural to spill the seed given him for generation." (John Mayer, Anglican, 1583-1664)
"He who lies with his wife, as if with a strange woman, is an adulterer ... Onan's sin here was self-pollution, aggravated much by his envy that moved him to it." (John Trapp, Puritan, 1601-1669)
"Onan, though he consented to marry the widow, yet to the great abuse of his own body ... he refused to raise up seed unto his brother. Thos sins that dishonour the body are very displeasing to God, and the evidence of vile affections. Observe, the thing which he did displeased the Lord - and it is to be feared, thousands, especially of single persons, by this very thing, still displease the Lord, and destroy their own souls." (John Wesley, Methodist, 1703-1791)
"The lewdness of this fact was composed of lust, of envy, and murder .. [murder,] in that there is a seminal vital virtue, which perishes if the seed be spilled; and by doing this to hinder the begetting of a living child, is the first degree of murder that can be committed, and the next unto it is the marring of conception, when it is made, and causing of abortion ... his brother Er before, was his brother in evil thus far, that both of them satisfied their sensuality against the order of nature ... which may be for terror ... to those, who, in marriage, care not for the increase of children, but for the satisfying of thier concupiscence." (Westminster Annotations, Calvinist, 1657)
"The voluntary spilling of semen outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous ... if any woman ejects a fetus from her womb by drugs, it is reckoned a crime incapable of expiation and deservedly Onan incurred upon himself the same kind of punishment." (John Calvin, 1509-1564)
Nope, anything goes, IMO.
Any person who has studied this issue enough to think they may pontificate on it, as you have, should have already been completely immersed in what I just posted to you.
It proves nothing about me, my motives or relative laziness, yet it speaks volumes about the ignorant who pontificate even while obviously knowing nothing of the history of Christian teaching on the subject. Your views are that of a very small minority of 20th century heretics. No basis can be found for your views whatsoever in the entire history of Christianity.
I would say that a major prohibition would be adulterous thoughts while having relations with your spouse. Our secular world (and some in the religious world) insist that it's okay to fantasize about having another partner during sex to "spice things up". But in reality that is the same thing as doing it in God's eyes.
I didn't want to mention it, but since you've repeatedly stressed this same Onan story, it is worthwhile pointing out that to most married people, the term "oral sex" is shorthand for oral stimulation as a part of foreplay.
Not that I buy that interpretation of the Onan story anyway. Has it not occurred to anyone writing on the subject that Onan denied the woman a baby which she wanted, and to which she was entitled under the law? That seems a MUCH worse sin than a mis-directed emission.
I agree with you on this.
| If oral sex in marriage is a sin, then I'm a DEAD MAN! (especially if my wife finds out I posted this) |
That sounds right.. Christ did say that if you lust after another, you have already committed adultery in the heart.
Aside from some long dead theologians stating that Onan sinned by not raising up a son for his dead brother, they cite no Biblical support for the position you maintain.
If I might make a suggestion...get yourself a copy of Max MacLean reading the Bible. I also had trouble sometimes making it through portions of the OT, but when you hear someone reading it with vocal inflections and the kind of voice Max has, it makes it much easier.
...within marriage.
Yes, and all this LUSTING a lot of you Freeper guys do on some of these threads has to stop. Posting pictures of these women is just using them, and that is not really very nice. I am serious about this. I know there will be back talk, but it will be for the best if ya'll quit it. NIP IT!
as Barney Fife says.
I am sorry. I am feeling bossy, and it is late. NIP IT!
NIP IT! NIP IT!
Twinkie Fife
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