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To: papertyger
I agree with you Sam. The subject does make for interesting discussion. But let me share something with you. I've found that where the Bible is concerned I've gained much more insight into what it says by assuming it's correct and any problem was a lack of understanding on my part, than I ever did trying to shoe horn what it says into what I thought was correct.
Actually, if this discussion was about the actual message of the bible --- the words of the literal text themselves --- I'd be much less critical than I have been here in this thread.

Remember, we are not discussing the message of the bible, but rather a claim that using some sort of voodoo statistics (in my view, anyway) on the frequency of letters in the bible we can prove the inerrancy of the textual message of the bible.

That makes this a much different discussion than "whether or not the bible is true".

In "whether or not the bible is true" discussions, we discuss what was written. But when the subject shifts to things like "Biblical Mathematics", we leave the fertile ground of theocracy, philosophy, religious history and human psychology and enter a kind of Biblical Area 51.

And in Biblical Area 51 I feel much freer to post my skepticism.

134 posted on 12/12/2004 2:16:53 PM PST by samtheman
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To: samtheman
Remember, we are not discussing the message of the bible, but rather a claim that using some sort of voodoo statistics (in my view, anyway) on the frequency of letters in the bible we can prove the inerrancy of the textual message of the bible.

Well the opening of the article states "...is convinced that the Hebrew Bible contains coded messages that are evidence of God's authorship of the Bible. His book, "Bible Code Bombshell: Compelling Scientific Evidence that God Authored the Bible," describes numerous examples of encoded phrases and sentences that are both lengthy and relevant to the text where they were found."

Kinda makes your statement looking more like "an answer looking for a problem to have" in my estimation. Though I've no doubt your statements are applicable to some popular ideas that have been promoted lately, I really don't think they are relevant to the thesis of the book if the openning paragraph is the statement of that thesis.

And in Biblical Area 51 I feel much freer to post my skepticism.

Is not one of the biblical definitions of "foolishness" giving an answer before knowing a matter?

146 posted on 12/12/2004 4:38:24 PM PST by papertyger
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To: samtheman

You:

Remember, we are not discussing the message of the bible, but rather a claim that using some sort of voodoo statistics (in my view, anyway) on the frequency of letters in the bible we can prove the inerrancy of the textual message of the bible.




Wrong.
The message of the Bible from the virgin birth; Christ coming in the flesh etc. is ALSO IN THE CODES. Which, according to the surface text, would indicate that such is from Holy Spirit. But authentic codes could be from NOTHING ELSE BUT HOLY SPIRIT BECAUSE THEY ARE SO INHERENTLY PART OF THE TEXT! SHEESH.

There's NO VOODOO STATISTICS INVOLVED. A fair-minded, thorough investigation of the current state of the science and art would have shown you that. The latest research is giving many atheist/agnostic mathematicians great consternation.

Given the requirement for the letters to be in precise arrangement, it does, in fact, offer some measure of proof of God's timelessness and omnicience. Of course, one is welcome--in a sense--to give God the finger about His gift of proof so provided.


220 posted on 12/12/2004 10:05:09 PM PST by Quix (5having a form of godliness but denying its power. I TIM 3:5)
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