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To: Stubborn
Sorry but I don't agree at all with your interpretation. First of all, I am using the King James Version which does not use the word 'made' in this verse. However, that being what it may, when your version uses the word 'made', it is referring to the method by which the prophesy came into being. This is further elaborated upon in the following verse 21 which says 'For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.' What this in effect is saying is that the prophet may have been the vehicle by which we now have a prophesy but they only gave us what the Holy Ghost gave them. So my point is that the word 'made' refers to something the prophet did, not something the reader is doing. In fact, if I take your interpretation that 'Scriptures are not to be expounded by anyone’s private judgment or private spirit', I believe that I would find myself in direct conflict with a plethora of other Bible verses. Take for example virtually all of Psalm 119 where nearly every other verse in the longest chapter in the Bible talks about the individual studying God's word and seeking guidance directly from God as to its meaning for his/her life (and I am only going to include a handful of the 176 verses here).
2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
15 I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.
16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.
17 Deal bountifully with thy servant, that I may live, and keep thy word.
26 I have declared my ways, and thou heardest me: teach me thy statutes.
Teach me, O LORD, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end.
34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
35 Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight.
64 The earth, O LORD, is full of thy mercy: teach me thy statutes.
169 Let my cry come near before thee, O LORD: give me understanding according to thy word.

I would also suggest that the literal rendering of 2 Timothy 3:15 to 17 yields a similar thought - that being that all of scripture is for the common man to take in for all the reasons listed here (and more that are mentioned elsewhere).
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Clearly the individual is to study the Word on their own for their benefit. With reference to your last sentence, are you saying that no one but the church has the right/authority/ability/judgment(?) to read and interpret scripture? What Bible verse do you wish to use to support that position? Why would there be so many verses along the lines of the ones mentioned above that would seem to strongly indicate that Scripture is to be taken in and meditated upon by the individual? And when you use the word 'Church', do you mean the Roman Catholic Church or do mean Church as it is used in scripture - that group of blood bought believers in Jesus Christ? At an even more basic level, where does it say in Scripture that the individual must submit to the judgment of the church? I can think of many many verses where the individual is instructed to 'submit' to God - can't think of any where the individual is to submit to the church. In fact, numerous warnings are given of church leaders that lead their flock astray. How would the individual know if they were being led astray unless they already had a good solid understanding of scripture? 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
50 posted on 11/23/2004 8:26:33 PM PST by Asfarastheeastisfromthewest...
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To: Asfarastheeastisfromthewest...
It's not suprising that you disagree with the interpretation of the Church. Its one of the differences between Cathoics and non-Catholics. For the sake of demonstrating private interpretation of Scripture, I will reply with the Church's interpretation. I do not expect you or any non-Catholic to change your mind from this post - I am merely demonstrating the gulf that exists between us - if you'll suffer through this reply.

Take for example virtually all of Psalm 119 where nearly every other verse in the longest chapter in the Bible talks about the individual studying God's word and seeking guidance directly from God as to its meaning for his/her life (and I am only going to include a handful of the 176 verses here). 2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.

A very good example, however, your interpretation is not the interpretation of the Church. Heres the other side of the coin from my Bible: 118:2 *Blessed are they who search his testimonies: that seek him with their whole heart.

*His testimonies The commandments of God are called His testimonies because they testify His Holy will unto us. Note here that in almost every verse of this psalm, (which in number are 176) the word and law of God, and the love and obsevance of it, are perpetually indicated under a variety of denominations, all signifying the same thing.

I would also suggest that the literal rendering of 2 Timothy 3:15 to 17 yields a similar thought - that being that all of scripture is for the common man to take in for all the reasons listed here (and more that are mentioned elsewhere). 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Once again, I will post a portion the other side of the coin as dictated from my Bible:

*3:14 But continue thou in those things which thou hast learned, and which have been committed to thee: knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
3:15 And because from thy infancy thou hast known the holy scriptures, which can instruct thee to salvation, by the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
3:16 All scripture, divinely inspired, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work. *

But continue thou in those things which thou hast learned
St. Paul here gives particular advice to his disciple, St. Timothy, who had been long since instructed in all the holy truths and mysteries of the Christian faith, who had received the gifts of the Holy Ghost, of prophesy, of interpreting the Scriptures, who was a priest, a bishop of Ephesus, the metropolis of Asia, whose office it was to instruct, direct and convert others.
(Vs 15) He tells this great bishop that the holy scriptures are able, and may conduce or can instruct him unto salvation, unto his own salvation and that of others. The Apostle here entreats his disciple, and in him all future Christians, that all Scripture is profitable; but not with Protestants, that Scripture alone is necessary and sufficient.
(Vs 16) All scripture, divinely inspired, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, or admonish, to instruct others in justice and in the ways of virtue, that thus he who is a man of God, a minister of the Gospel, may be perfect and instructed unto every good work. But when our adversaries of the pretended reformation, undertake from these four verses to shew, first, that every ignorant man or woman is hereby warranted to read and put what construction his or her private spirit or private judgement, suggests upon all places of the holy Scripture; and secondly, that the Scripture alone contain all truths which a Christian is bound to believe; or at least, that the Scriptures teach him all things necessary to salvation, without regard to the interpretation and authority of the Catholic Church; I may at least say (without examining at present any other pretended grounds of these assertions) that these consequences are very remote from the text and sense of St. Paul in this place.

As to the first, does this follow; the Scriptures must be read by St. Timothy, a priest, a bishop, a man of God, a minister of the Gospel, whose office it is to instruct and convert others, therefore they are proper to be read and expounded by every ignorant man or woman?

Does not St. Paul say elsewhere (2 Cor. 2:17) that many adulterate and corrupt the word of God? Does not St. Peter tell us also, (2 Peter 3:16) that in St. Paul’s epistles are some things.....which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as also the other scriptures, to their own perdition?
***************

It continues on to exhaustively cover the subject, but I'll stop here as I think, if you've read the whole post, it suffices to show another side of the coin that perhaps you've not considered.

"But I would not believe in the Gospel, had not the authority of the Catholic Church already moved me." - St. Augustine. This quote pretty much sums it up in a nutshell.

60 posted on 11/24/2004 4:14:18 AM PST by Stubborn (It Is The Mass That Matters)
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To: Asfarastheeastisfromthewest...

Thanks for your post #50...


78 posted on 11/24/2004 9:26:06 AM PST by housewife101
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