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To: pachomi33

I've seen it phrased that the righteousness of Christ is reckoned upon us by grace moreso than the sinfulness of Adam, and this being only one of some forty or so things which we receive at salvation.

I'll admit I also find far more significance in Romans 5:12-21 in regards to spiritual death than physical death, but I have also seen where this one set of Scripture seems to discern between many denominations and doctrinal perspectives. Some perhaps more in error than others, but all might give more testimony to the richness of His grace.


278 posted on 11/26/2004 7:55:09 PM PST by Cvengr (;^))
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To: Cvengr; Stubborn; Kolokotronis

I've seen it phrased that the righteousness of Christ is reckoned upon us by grace moreso than the sinfulness of Adam, and this being only one of some forty or so things which we receive at salvation.

I'll admit I also find far more significance in Romans 5:12-21 in regards to spiritual death than physical death, but I have also seen where this one set of Scripture seems to discern between many denominations and doctrinal perspectives. Some perhaps more in error than others, but all might give more testimony to the richness of His grace.


I came from a Calvinistic background- so I don't won't to misrepresent the Protestant interpretation of imputation. Again like I said there are elements of truth to it. But the whole truth is much more expansive than simple reckoning to our account. Much,much deeper.
In the Orthodox interpretation- as held universally prior to Augustine's interpretations in this regard:
1. the fall renders us depraved of the grace of God which is called deifying- ie partakers of the divine Nature (2 Pet.1:4) We are now just flesh and blood and hence cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Christ being divine cannot inherit it for flesh and blood (communication of properties )
2. this fall introduced the passions (pathemata in Gk Rom.7:5) also called concupiscence and anger.
3. the reason became darkened by the fall because ofthe withdrawal of the divine Vision of God. We now only see through a glass darkly.
3. finally this leads to physical death.
4. Adam's sin is not specifically said to be imputed to us. Again we suffer the consequences mentioned above. This depravity- bondage to death- leads to sin which is the basis of our condemnation.
5. The devil then has the power of death (heb.2:9-14) He is the prince of this world and rules throuh stirring the motions of sin within men. He is a king over the children of pride (Job.41)
6. Christ is born apart from Adam's seed- of one nature with us (homoousious) in order to impart life to fallen man. It is not so much judicial as it is healing.
7. The devil is destroyed by the cross (Col.2:15;Heb.2:14;Jn.12:31)
the cross literally was the destruction of the devil's dominion and the introduction of Christ's exaltation over all creation to be the Head over all things for the Church (Col.1:18;Eph.1:18-22)
8. The cross judged sin and condemned it (Rom.8:1-4) Satan was cast out and his house was spoiled by Christ- he harrowed hell after descending into it.
9. Christ then laid down his Life to deliver us from the Wolf who came to destroy. "the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep" why? to deliver from the wolf- the devil as the context in Jn.10 indicates.
10. The benefits then of Christ's obedience are given to those who are in Christ.
11. We are in Christ by bying baptized into Him (Gal.3:26-28) we then receive the inheritance.
12. However we are in Him only as we are joined to Him. Union with God is not just by fiat or decree of God. It is an ontological union- "he that is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (I Cor.6:17) This means that only as we walk in the Spirit of God the new pedagogue (Gal.4:1-6) will we receive the inheritance to be a son of God- the grace of adoption.
12. Faith itself is reckoned for righteousness. Again salvation is not a legal transaction- it is inherently graciously. Was always and will be no matter what dispensation- or administration- God gave to the children in His house. The reason why God demands faith is because the basis for any relationship with God is trust. Eternal life IS knowledge of God. That is experience of His Spirit's powers (energies in GK) This kingdom is experienced only as we turn from Satan to God.
Acts 26:18 explains this well.
The legal metaphor is strained because in Eze.18 one could be righteous one minute and wicked the next depending on whether they stayed in covenant with GOd.
Perhaps you are trying to say in different terms what we accept though believe we term more accurately. Christ work is finished we cannot add to it or subtract. But being volitional creatures we must participate in joining ourselves to Him- He will not force salvation. If man were deprived of free will he would cease to be in the image of God, for God is SOvereign. He is free in all actions. He does not have to do anything. For us to be restored into the the fullness of the likeness of God we must have freedom from the passions etc. God bless you and I hope you perhaps understand the idea of works salvation is anathema to us (as Catholics as well!) We just believe it is not the most precise way to speak we must speak orthodox or correctly. Here is a thought as far as imputation. If CHrist's obedience were imputed to HIm. If I were considered as righteous than Him than why differing degrees of glory? Why are some saints great in the sight of the Lord and others are not? WHy is Mary highly favored and others not? This is the concept expressed in Lk.2:52 , "Jesus increased in wisdom and stature and FAVOR with God and man" We do the same. we grow in grace- in favor with God. Certainly I do not have the efficacy in my prayers that JOhn the Baptist- the greatest of all men had or has even now? Just some thoughts to consider. We are individuals called to partake of the Life of the Trinity.


288 posted on 11/27/2004 7:40:28 AM PST by pachomi33
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