Posted on 11/22/2004 11:12:20 AM PST by stuartcr
Yeah, and God also knew the outcome of Job's trials...why teach Job a lesson when he couldn't have done differently?
From what I understand...it was a lesson to us. While Job's compadres were trying to figure out what in the heck he could have possibly done to suffer so much... (disobeying God in some way)...Job never faltered in his faith or Love for God--and if I recall correctly, Job never did find out why he had to suffer so much. That is the message I take from the book of Job.
This question was answered when we reviewed the Book of Job last week.
Excerpt:
"At the opening we are handed certain program notes that explain to us something about the drama, something which even the actors themselves are not permitted to know. The answer given is that senseless suffering arises out of Satan's continual challenge to the government of God.
"So, as the book opens, we find God meeting with the angelic creation. Among them is Satan, who strides in sneering and swaggering, convinced that self-interest is the only real motive for human behavior. Satan's philosophy is that the question "What's in it for me?" is the only accurate explanation for why people do anything.
"And here, in the presence of God, he asserts that anyone who claims that human beings act from any other motive is simply a religious phony; furthermore, he claims he can prove it. God says, rather patiently, "All right, we'll test your theory." Then he selects the man Job to be the proving ground.
"In World War II at the opening of the war between Japan and the United States, it looked as though this conflict would be staged in the Pacific Ocean -- very likely the islands of Hawaii, for the battle began at Pearl Harbor. But very early in the war, as you will remember, events took a sudden startling turn and without a word of warning the whole theater of battle shifted abruptly to the South Pacific. For the first time, Americans began to hear of strange names of islands, like "Guadalcanal" and others, There, in those quiet, obscure, out-of-the way corners of the earth, the greatest powers on earth were locked in mortal combat. The islands became the battleground for the great fight between empires.
"And something like this happened in the story of Job. Here is a man going about his private affairs, unaware that he has suddenly become the center of God's attention. For the time being all of God's activity has focused upon him, and he has become the battleground for a conflict between God and Satan in which God is planning to pull the rug out from under Satan, and to reveal him as the phony that he is. Job is that battleground, and Satan immediately moves in with shock troops.
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Let me know if you want to be on the ping list.
Marlowe
Because some people turn from God... and God knows that, too... I guess it's a difference between what He would like us to do, an what He knows we will actually do...
I don't understand or believe, that's why I keep asking. Thanks for an honest answer.
Despite his troubles, Job remained steadfast.
He didn't fault God.
THAT is the lesson.
Job is one of my faves!
I'll tell you what a Jehovah's Witness had to say about your question. I don't agree with them about alot of things, but in this instance it made plenty of common sense.
According to the book of Job, Satan was flying to and fro between the earth and heaven. He would come before God and the angels and say that the only reason Job worshiped him is because he was blessed with wealth, a large family, good health, etc. So God allowed Satan to inflict suffering onto Job by taking away all that he had, until Job sat there in the dirt scraping maggots off his wounds.
Job lived a very long time ago, back when God blessed those who were good, and cursed those who were not. Job was a good and upright man, so he didn't understand why all of this tragedy had come upon him. Despite it all, he would not curse God.
Behind the scenes though, you have Satan challenging God in front of the angels. Basically he's saying that man will only serve God when it benefits him, but God wanted to prove him wrong, and he did this through Job. He could have just told Satan that he was wrong, but then the doubt would have lingered with the angels. Remember, Satan got too big for his britches and was eventually cast from heaven forever, but at the time of Job, according to the bible, Satan was still allowed to go back and forth between the earth and heaven and stand in God's presence.
Anyway, Job, without knowing what was going on behind the scenes, proved that man can and will worship and serve God regardless of any personal gain, and this story left no doubt of this among the angels.
It also helps to understand why bad things happen to good people.
Yes, and as someone said on this thread, the lessons for us are found in the many episodes throughout the Bible.
From Job we see that life can be unbearable but our faith in God should not be diminished because of our suffering.
So basically it is a lesson in hope...even though, in reality, it is not needed? A sort of pep-talk to keep people on the straight and narrow.
God is most powerful. He is the creator and sustainer of the universe. There are many attributes of God that are unique. For example, His perfection, omnipotence, immortality, power and omnipresense. Also, God was not created. He has always existed.
Satan was created by God as the angel Lucifer. Lucifer decided that he wanted to be God and rebelled against his creator. There was a battle and Lucifer lost and was cast out of heaven along with 1/3 of the angels that had followed him.
Lucifer's fall was the result of his own sin against God. That is why Satan exists. Note that Satan is a created being and does not have the attributes of God listed above. God has no peer because all other beings were created by him.
Superbly stated.
As I recall from my reading, Satan told God that the only reason Job loved God was because he was wealthy, healthy, had a great family, etc.
God said that wasn't true. Satan said, "prove it" and so, Job lost everything except his life, including his friends, his health, etc. Job, while not understanding all this, remained faithful to God. At last, after Job was unsatisfied with the "consolation" of his friends (who basically told him that he must be sinful since he lost everything), Job questioned God.
God basically told Job, "Who are you to question me?" and subsequently restored to Job everything he had lost.
I take it to mean this: I have no idea why bad things happen to good people. I will likely not understand that until I get to heaven and can get the answers to some questions. Anyway, it's none of my business. I can pray for those who suffer (including myself), I can realize that this life holds no answers, and I can worship God. Whatever His reasons, fine.
A lot of that sounds like what the Buddhists say.
The satan is a manifestation of G-d's will. There is no power or force greater or equal to G-d. And the fact that G-d knows the past, present, and future, doesn't mean we don't have free will. Tomorrow if you go to Baskin Robbins and order chocolate ice cream when you usually order vanilla, G-d isn't going to go, 'doh, I thought he was going to order vanilla.' G-d was already there and knows you ordered chocolate. It doesn't mean you didn't have the free will to choose chocolate or vanilla. Get it? It's complicated.
There are many things that we, mortal and flawed humans, cannot comprehend.
Just remember that all we do know is a gift of God. All we don't know is His to reveal or not. Faith has moments of confusion, but that same faith and the Holy Spirit allows us to believe that which we cannot see or explain.
Amen to that! Hi Southflank! It's so good to see you...
It can't bother Him then, if He knows what we will do, and still allows us to do these things.
So Job accepted that things just are the way they are. No one's fault. Where's the free-will?
I bet it bothers Him when we turn away from Him. I don't see how it couldn't bother Him.
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