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To: BikerNYC
I believe it is an improper use of language to speak of either goodness or loudness as existing other than as a quality of an object of perception

If we can avoid the "if a tree falls in a forest…" parallel:

To compare/contrast. Loundess is variations in sound pressure interpreted by the brain. It is part of our sense perceptions. A great many animals have the sense of hearing - some greater than ours.

"Goodness" however is not a sense perception. It doesn't have units, color, specific location. It requires intent, conscious intent. We cannot build a machine to produce it, or point to it.

So, I think it's correct to say it is something we can "know," realize, recognize, but not something we perceive.

As to its "value." Loudness, like color, has only subjective value (taken by itself). I could argue for a loudness of 20db, but only a fool would say this wave pressure has intrinsic value.

We cannot say the same for goodness. We realize it has intrinisc value. Some say they know this, recognize or realize this as "reality." I believe you do too. Or, at the very least act as though you recognize this intrinsic value of goodness. The same holds for 'truth."

Why the universe works this way could also be part of the mystery.

38 posted on 11/25/2004 11:13:49 PM PST by D-fendr
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To: D-fendr
When I talk about loudness, I don't mean how many decibels a sound has, I mean whether or not we judge a sound as loud.

It is not so much a function of our sense impression, although hearing is a prerequisite, as it is a judgment we make about the sound we hear. We perceive a sound and judge it as loud. Others might disagree with our judgment about the sound, claiming that the sound is not loud. The number of decibels a sound registers on some scale is largely irrelevant to the judgment. If we compared people's judgments of whether or not a particular sound is loud, we might find points of commonality depending upon the kinds of sounds a person has been used to as they grew up.

"That music is loud." We've heard it plenty of times. The loudness is in the music, and a judgment that the music is loud cannot be reduced to how many decibels it registers. People can have a legitimate disagreement about whether the music is loud and, depending upon the physical characteristices of the sound, they may be sounds that almost all of us agree are loud. The judgment, however, is individual. Some people judge the music as loud and some do not. Which judgments are wrong?

Equally, we perceive an action committed by another person, using our senses, and judge it to be good. There may be actions which almost all of us might agree are good, but the judgment is ultimately individual.
41 posted on 11/26/2004 8:06:24 PM PST by BikerNYC
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