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1 posted on 11/22/2004 8:03:30 AM PST by Heartlander
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To: Heartlander
The fact is, the material of which the universe is made didn't create itself nor can it propagate.

There are two answers to the problem of its existence: the juvenile "Who cares? Maybe it was just kind of always there" and "Some force or entity capable of bringing it into being brought it into being."

Acknowledging God's existence is the only rational response to the universe.

2 posted on 11/22/2004 8:08:34 AM PST by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: SilentServiceCPOWife

save


3 posted on 11/22/2004 8:11:02 AM PST by SilentServiceCPOWife (In the smiling twilight of the new political morning, the unwashed told their betters to shove it.)
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To: Heartlander

Question: have archiologiest or anthropologists found any cultures without a form of theistic worship?


6 posted on 11/22/2004 8:32:38 AM PST by Walkingfeather (q)
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To: Heartlander; GarySpFc

The Intelligent Design argument is predicated upon a large body of evidence related to both issues of biological irreducible design and mathematical information theory. This last argument is an amazing one, an stems from modern understandings -- in mathematics -- of how information is collected, codified, processed, stored, and applied. Only intelligence can create information; "natural" processes can convey it and even store and apply it, but the creation of information is an inversion of entropy, hence it requires something other than random chance to generate information. In my opinion, this is one of the strongest objective arguments for the existence of a deity. As a christian I don't stop there -- nor do I actually start there, since I begin with a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. However, if I'm limited to just that which can be observed in nature, I believe it is possible to demonstrate intelligent design in the universe.


7 posted on 11/22/2004 8:35:12 AM PST by TexasGreg ("Democrats Piss Me Off")
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To: Heartlander
Respectfully, I have not met an athiest yet (and I've met plenty) who has not admitted to me that he/she chooses non-belief in order to avoid having any "rules" imposed upon them. This isn't true athiesm, but avoidance of accountability to anyone but yourself.

I seriously don't understand how anyone could look at the universe, the makeup of the body, even the structure of a flower and believe it all just "happened". These things just are too complex to have formed out of nothing.

Flame away.

8 posted on 11/22/2004 8:41:46 AM PST by I'm ALL Right! (Savor...)
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To: Heartlander
I'm attracted to the Creator metaphor Motion to Unmoving Mover. Here thermodynamics alludes to the "wind that swept over the waters", (Genesis 1:2). Motion subsumes a motive or imperative for creation. Perhaps dark matter, the quintessence (Einstein's ellusive Cosmological Constant) is that wind in motion. This metaphor also brings to mind a concept in physics known as vaccuum genesis, the idea that all that is emerged as particles from the vacuum. Motion suggests the expansion of the universe, known as inflation, as all the stuff (galaxies, etc) move further apart from any point in space.

I suppose this concept of a Prime Mover is close to a Deist idea of God, who indirectly intervenes in His creation, by setting things into motion and relying on physics to produce the universe of today.

Somehow, the Uncertainty Principle in quantum physics reflects a key Divine Principle: on the grander scale, God's plan is more discernable to us, while on the discreet Planck Scale, uncertainty prevents us from knowing the root (motive) of His design. I'm also attracted to the notion that the universe itself is the expanding conscience of God, a Divine Organism, producing the outcome of life in His image on Earth, and certainly on billions of worlds throughout the universe. Science shows us the role we play in this Body Cosmic.

10 posted on 11/22/2004 12:55:39 PM PST by eagle11 (A worthy goal: Global society founded upon individual freedom, property rights and the rule of law.)
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To: Heartlander
Great compilation. Thank you for your post.

However...

A philosopher would instantly recognize the futility of using pure science to "prove" a philosophic value. But he seems blind about its own category:

Philosophers recognize many arguments for the existence of God…

If you can know it by philosophy (argument/reason), it ain't God. Just the same as saying: If you can measure it and quantify it (science) it ain't God either. Spirit transcends the limitations of both sense knowledge and reason/logic. In reality, and by definition.

Reason can take us part-way (even building upon science), but at some point, other means, spiritual in nature, must be used for further knowledge of spirit.

thanks again for your post...

11 posted on 11/22/2004 2:53:19 PM PST by D-fendr
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