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To: Quix; Safrguns
This is Chapter 14

1 And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous
2 man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. And go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them: "You should intercede" for men, and not men
3 for you: Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children
4 of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die
5 and perish. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget
6 children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. But you were formerly
7 spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling.
8 And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon
9 the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin;
10 they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. [As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless
12 hunger and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them.

1,206 posted on 12/20/2004 10:32:17 PM PST by concretebob (but what do I know, I'm just an ignorant peasant)
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To: concretebob
Just to let you know, we are not using the same translation of I Enoch. In this particular chapter it doesn't make a lot of difference.

In the Charlesworth collection (which I use) the chapter you show as "14" is chapter "15". I copied from verse 8 on in post 1204.

You can see the difference by comparing that with your post 1206. The Charlesworth collection looks at a variety of manuscripts and fragments and provides footnotes to explain the differences.

For example, your translation reads:

Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin;

The Greek fragment reads:

Evil spirits have come out of their bodies. Because from the day that they are born from men and from the holy Watchers in their beginning.

The latest translation (which looks at three major sources plus fragments, etc.) reads:

Evil spirits have come out of their bodies. Because from the day that they were created from the holy ones they became the Watchers; their first origin is the spiritual foundation.


1,208 posted on 12/20/2004 11:13:10 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: concretebob

I thought these offspring were bound up and imprisoned.


1,210 posted on 12/20/2004 11:18:47 PM PST by Safrguns
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To: concretebob

Thanks.


1,221 posted on 12/21/2004 4:59:53 AM PST by Quix (5having a form of godliness but denying its power. I TIM 3:5)
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