PROPHETIC SIGNS THAT WE ARE IN THE END TIMES [A good summary of SOME key evidences--QX]

CONTENDER MINISTRIES ^ | 11 JUL 2004 | JENNIFER RAST

[Gamecock]

No one said disharmony Marlowe. How do you reconcile those verses?

[Gamecock]

Excuse me, I called you Marlowe. A typing error.....

[Quix]

I'm fairly confident that Marlowe

WOULD ENORMOUSLY APPRECIATE IT

IF YOU'D KEEP our two personalities very, very, very sorted out and distinctly different in your consciousness and postings! LOL.

[Quix]

How nice.

Nice to hear from the Great Bunny.

He should try applesause in the pancake batter, though. I think he might like it.

Cheers for the encouraging bunny words, thumps and warm furry thoughts and feelings.

The same back at him and you.

LOL.

[topcat54]

In my experience and observations, God is highly unlikely to unstop deaf ears unless the stuff between them had earnestly determined and sought God's Face

"There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God."

So much for our experiences.

[Quix]

So much for OUR experiences?

I beg to differ.

I may not have ENJOYED all my experiences, but God has taught me tons through them.

I guess your experiences have been different.

And, I think the experiences of Demos Shakarian and family above were MOST INSTRUCTIVE and drawing of the Believers as well as others to a more intimate relationship with God.

I can understand a reluctance to comment on them.

As has been said: He with an experience is never at the mercy of someone with merely an argument.

[Quix]

I gather, from what you've said,

that your

EXPERIENCES WITH GOD

have been very lacking

compared to those of the Shakarians.

[desherwood7]

PTL INDEED!

[desherwood7]

Thank you. I'll have to read it and get back to you. OK?

[Quix]

Of course.

Blessed by your posts whenever.

THX.

[desherwood7]

Thank you. I'm glad you're blessed by my posts. Of course, I get help in writing these posts from God.

[Quix]

All the better!

As The Word says, all good comes from God!

Certainly so, in my case, too!

[topcat54]

I gather, from what you've said, that your EXPERIENCES WITH GOD have been very lacking compared to those of the Shakarians.

I can objectively relate to the true, perfect and authorative Word of God. I have no objective basis on which to judge the experience of these folks. The experience could be folklore for all you know. Perhaps you have some other authentication of these events other then heresay testimony.

[topcat54]

Thank you. I'll have to read it and get back to you. OK?

Just be careful not to take the verse out of context as the LRM folks do. It has nothing to do with alleged prophecies or visions today.

[Quix]

I can objectively relate to the true, perfect and authorative Word of God.

Perhaps you can--though I have yet to observe much fair-minded objectivity.

What you seem UNABLE or UNWILLING to do is to own a contradiction between construing EXPERIENCES with Holy Spirit as qualitatively and quantitatively different in your construction on reality with/compared to EXPERIENCES with Scriptures represented by ink on paper.

Logically, the distinction you try to make when you resort to complaining about EXPERIENCES with Holy Spirit vs EXPERIENCES with a book called The Bible is an exceedingly bogus one. You pretend and assert that one is innately more righteous, kosher, safe etc. than the other. There's not a shred of evidence over the last 1900+ years to support that. There's tons of evidence to refute it.

Besides that, it really shocks me that a man of your mental abilities would fail to realize and factor into the equation all the mangling of Scriptures that have gone on in all the pulpits of the world the last 1900+ years. One might have thought that you'd have noted that and realized that man's capacity to mangle his EXPERIENCES with Scripture printed on the page is at least greatly parallel to his capacties to mangle his EXPERIENCES with Holy Spirit. But then, biases do tend to hinder awareness.

I have no objective basis on which to judge the experience of these folks. The experience could be folklore for all you know.

Yet again, I find your assumptions exceedingly flawed. At least you are more than a little consistent in that regard. It's a favorite ploy and plea of yours.

Actually, you are wrong, yet again. You obviously have not checked the sources out. The details of the Shakarian's family histories are written about clearly by people who lived the events in their own biographies. I'd have thought you'd have checked that out more thoroughly.

Also, I have personally known people quite familiar with the family and they ALSO assert that the family memers are the highest caliber Christians--not just in honesty but in humility and authentic spirituality--as the stories posted depict.

Perhaps you have some other authentication of these events other then heresay testimony.

Personal autobiographies by the persons who lived the events are hardly heresay. I suggest you check your dictionary, again.

BTW, your slips and your biases are showing.

[DAVEY CROCKETT]

Hi Quix and Everyone I ran across this in my studies and would like to see what everyone thinks.

IMHO...

!!!!!!! I believe that there are prophets (and the other gifts) at this time in history although I can't point you in the direction of a single one. I believe it is a matter of Faith and GOD'S choosing.

The thing that worries me the most is that we have been so blessed by GOD Almighty with a mindset of self in everyday life. As opposed to say the Israelite's wandering through the desert or our gggg-grandparents simple struggle for survival. That we fail to cry out and truly seek GODS face.
Romans 10:21 But as for Israel He says, " ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE."

!!!!!!!In Zechariah 13 I believe he is talking about the purification of Israel and their false prophets? The first verse tells us the Spirit of the Lord in us from the beginning of creation. Soooo help me out! Pay attention to "In that day" and the "Spirit"

!!!!!!! Jerusalem is under attack as we speak.
Zechariah 12: .

1 The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him,
2 "Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around; and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah.

3 "It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it.

4 "In that day," declares the LORD, "I will strike every horse with bewilderment and his rider with madness. But I will watch over the house of Judah, while I strike every horse of the peoples with blindness.

5 "Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, 'A strong support for us are the inhabitants of Jerusalem through the LORD of hosts, their God.'

6 "In that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot among pieces of wood and a flaming torch among sheaves, so they will consume on the right hand and on the left all the surrounding peoples, while the inhabitants of Jerusalem again dwell on their own sites in Jerusalem.

!!!!!!! Here we find THE END. In verse 10 the spirit is porued out on them and they mourn because they had rejected Jesus Christ and did not have the Holy Spirit because they did not believe.

7 "The LORD also will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem will not be magnified above Judah.

8 "In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the one who is feeble among them in that day will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the LORD before them.

9 "And in that day I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
!!!!!!!
10 "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

11 "In that day there will be great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the plain of Megiddo.
12 "The land will mourn, every family by itself; the family of the house of David by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself and their wives by themselves;
13 the family of the house of Levi by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself and their wives by themselves;
14 all the families that remain, every family by itself and their wives by themselves.

!!!!!!!I believe Zechariah 13 is speaking before Jesus came?
Zechariah 13

1 "In that day a fountain will be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for impurity.
2 "It will come about in that day," declares the LORD of hosts, "that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they will no longer be remembered; and I will also remove the prophets and the unclean spirit from the land.
3 "And if anyone still prophesies, then his father and mother who gave birth to him will say to him, 'You shall not live, for you have spoken falsely in the name of the LORD'; and his father and mother who gave birth to him will pierce him through when he prophesies.
4 "Also it will come about in that day that the prophets will each be ashamed of his vision when he prophesies, and they will not put on a hairy robe in order to deceive;
5 but he will say, 'I am not a prophet; I am a tiller of the ground, for a man sold me as a slave in my youth.'

!!!!!!!!Here GOD is speaking about the blessing he will pour out on Israel. In chapter 42:1- 43:13 Jehovah promises deliverance through HIS Messiah.

Isaiah 44:3 'For I will pour out water on the thirsty land
And streams on the dry ground;
I will pour out My Spirit on your offspring
And My blessing on your descendants;

!!!!!!!The Promise of the Spirit through Jesus Christ.

Joel 2: 28 " It will come about after this
That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
29
"Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

!!!!!!Now I think Joel 2 is a fulfillment of the following. Do we agree the last days started with the death of Jesus?

Acts 2: 17
' AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
18
EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT
And they shall prophesy.
19
'AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE
AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW,
BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.
20
'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS
AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD,
BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.
21
'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.'


!!!!!!!Here we find that this will happen after Jesus comes back to restore Israel.

Ezekiel:25 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name.
26 "They will forget their disgrace and all their treachery which they perpetrated against Me, when they live securely on their own land with no one to make them afraid.
27 "When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them from the lands of their enemies, then I shall be sanctified through them in the sight of the many nations.
28 "Then they will know that I am the LORD their God because I made them go into exile among the nations, and then gathered them again to their own land; and I will leave none of them there any longer.
29 "I will not hide My face from them any longer, for I will have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel," declares the Lord GOD.

IMHO

[Quix]

Context. Ahhhh yes. It often appears that you seem to love to appeal to context except when it blows your assertions out of the water.

Here's the chapter in NIV:

James 5

Warning to Rich Oppressors

1Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. 2Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.[1] 6You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you.

Patience in Suffering

7Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord's coming. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop and how patient he is for the autumn and spring rains. 8You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near. 9Don't grumble against each other, brothers, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door! 10Brothers, as an example of patience in the face of suffering, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. 11As you know, we consider blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job's perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

12Above all, my brothers, do not swear--not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. Let your "Yes" be yes, and your "No," no, or you will be condemned.

The Prayer of Faith

13Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. 14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord.

15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.

The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. 17Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.

19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Footnotes

[1] 5:5 Or yourselves as in a day of feasting

I suppose, TC, that I can imagine how your biases might ignore the Bolded Blue sections--QUTIE IN CONTEXT, BTW. But I'm still rather stunned that your logic would.

I realize it is evidently somehow strangely comforting to you to ignore Scriptures clearly referring to end times etc. especially as they might lend support to the idea that we are in those end times.

I don't understand as fully as I'd prefer, how it's so seemingly comforting for you to tear out verses above that refer to things like healing. Obviously your choice. I can't imagine God being the least bit pleased with that choice to trash inconvenient or uncomfortable-to-your-biases portions of His Word, however.

[topcat54]

Personal autobiographies by the persons who lived the events are hardly heresay. I suggest you check your dictionary, again.

hearsay (n): (1) Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor.
(2) Law. Evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal knowledge of a witness and therefore generally not admissible as testimony.

Since Shakarian was not present when these alleged prophecies were given, this autobiography is reporting hearsay (unverified) evidence. He is simply relating tales told to him by someone else.

[topcat54]

Context. Ahhhh yes. It often appears that you seem to love to appeal to context except when it blows your assertions out of the water.

As I said, the context has nothing to do with modern day "prophecies" or "visions" ala the LRM. Thanks for confirming that.

[Quix]

I have no objective basis on which to judge the experience of these folks.

I submit that a major reason for that is

that you have refused to obey the Scriptures about

1 Thessalonians 5
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
19 Quench not the Spirit.
20 Despise not prophesyings.

God hasn't changed.

We are still, essentially, in the New-Testament-Church era.

The Bible is STILL *THE* MANUAL FOR CHRISTIAN LIFE.

I still fail to grasp near as fully as I'd like as a Christian or as a shink what would lead anyone to short-change their relationship with God; their EXPERIENCES OF THE BIBLE; their intimacy with Holy Spirit etc.

It still amazes me as well as saddens me.

And the implications are even more shockingly awesome in our era than ever before. I think the first story from the Shakarian family's history is but a taste of what's ahead in the not very distant future.