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To: Californiajones
To be saved implies there is something she needs to be saved from. If she was sinless, she would not need the Savior

Think carefully about your logic. How do Catholics think Mary became sinless? By her own effort? Because she was so good-looking? No, by the foreseen application of the merits of her crucified Son. That's dogma, a Catholic who denies it is properly called a heretic.

So, if she calls God her savior, it follows that she needed saving and was in fact saved. It does not follow that she had necessarily committed personal sins. Babies haven't committed personal sins, yet none of them can get to heaven on their own merits (to say otherwise is the heresy of Pelagianism). Catholics are required by their faith to believe precisely that her sinlessness was a gift from God, that is, that it was part and parcel of the grace that saved her.

And none of that has anything to do with praying for the Poor Souls in purgatory, which was the original topic of this thread.

13 posted on 10/27/2004 3:46:44 PM PDT by Campion
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To: Campion
Why? Then why would Mary bother to be there in the upper room at Pentecost if she had no need for the infilling of the newly coming Gifts of the Spirit? Mary, as all the other disciples, needed a savior and committed sins. How about the time she and Jesus' brothers came to Him and tried to get him to stop healing all those people? And Jesus said "who are my brothers and my mother" (my paraphrase) My mother and my brothers are those who do the will of my Father in heaven." He did not indicate any special dispensation or anything like that on His brothers and Mary.
16 posted on 10/27/2004 3:58:38 PM PDT by Californiajones ("The apprehension of beauty is the cure for apathy" - Thomas Aquinas)
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