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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Ah, you have a way with analogies.

Unlike some half-soused coach on steroids and antacids, God is God, omnipotent creator of heaven and earth. He knows the players because He created the players and the stadium and the Astroturf and the Burger King concessions and the goal posts and the weather and the air every player breaths.

I think the fundamental difference that arises from our competing views is one of relationship. As we caught the floater that God laid up there for us, we are motivated by the fact that He has taken a personal interest in our condition. And as He lays out the pathway toward choosing Him, we are blessed more so because we see how His hand was guiding us.

We can faithfully tell unbelievers of the personal interest He has toward them, without worrying if we are outside of His will in our wholehearted sharing of the Gospel to people. The caution that is naturally presented in the Calvinistic Gospel, shines through clearly. "Oh, and by the way you may not be one of the elect. Maybe you are waisting your time being curious about Christianity?"

The Bible is clear that all men are created in the image of God because they have descended from Adam. That image has value and meaning despite unbelievers sinful natures. However, that value is not realized, from our perspective, until we are in Christ, as we become capable of communing with God, discerning His will for our lives. The Lake of Fire was created for the unforgivable Devil and his angels, not those created in God's image, who because of Christ are worthy of an inheritance that marvels the Holy Angels.

The Holy Spiritual communion with God is what we lost in the fall. Regeneration is as simple as accepting Jesus' death and resurrection to reestablish that personal relationship with the Father. The new creature is only new because God can have Holy Communion with the person, based on Jesus' work. For this reason we do not become sinless "new creatures", which is what one would expect with the term "new creature". The newness of life is based on what Jesus did, and how we now have fellowship with God.

Our continued sinning does not alter our position with God, rather the fellowship with God alters our sinning. He who begins a good work in you is faithful to complete it. From a practical perspective, after having been saved, we realize that God is working on all of mankind to win souls. This motivates us to share His love to all we come in contact with. He desires that none created in His image are cast into the eternal fire.

242 posted on 10/24/2004 11:32:47 AM PDT by bondserv (Alignment is critical! †)
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To: HarleyD; gracebeliever; OrthodoxPresbyterian

Sorry, I meant to ping you folks to post #242.


243 posted on 10/24/2004 11:34:35 AM PDT by bondserv (Alignment is critical! †)
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To: bondserv; gracebeliever; OrthodoxPresbyterian; Dr. Eckleburg

I’m afraid I can’t figure out your allegory in post #239. I personally don’t like allegories since they rarely reflect scripture. I don’t think either view believes God doesn’t take a competing interest in His elect (I hope you would agree that those chosen of God are His elect).

Your post sounds like the typical Hallmark theology I so frequently hear. It sounds so warm and wonderful that if you were just to chose God life will be wonderful. The “God loves you and wants you to have a wonderful life” mentality. What’s missing is the fine print on this Hallmark card which says if you happen to make the WRONG choice God will cast you into Hell. Some even insist God REALLY won’t cast anyone into Hell because He loves everyone. He’ll just annihilate them.

This is not the God of the Old Testament who hardens people’s hearts and raises and destroys nations. It is not the God of the New Testament who calls people “brood of vipers” and “an evil and adulteresses generation” and drove the money changers out of the temple with whips. And this view does not command the respect and fear of the Lord that is asked for by God Himself.

I have yet to find anyone who can reconcile the scriptural view of God with the Hallmark theology. But it sure sounds so nice and beautiful and perhaps if we play just one more stanza of Amazing Grace....


244 posted on 10/24/2004 3:46:05 PM PDT by HarleyD (I believe in dragons, fairy tales and man's goodness. - NOT)
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