Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Starwind; gracebeliever
If you don't like it, fine. Refute it. Don't pretend he didn't cite supporting scripture. Lay out Rom 10:17 and Eph 1:13 and show us all how it does not bear on your question of DOES "an unsaved man EVER hear and believe the gospel" while he yet remains Spiritually Dead, without the Prior Regeneration of the Holy Spirit? You argue "the Scriptures say NO", so demonstrate how Rom 10:17 and Eph 1:13 don't apply at all, and to be complete, demonstrate to what they in fact do apply.

Fine.

Romans 10:17 and Ephesians 1:13 simply state that when an unsaved man believes and trusts the Gospel he is Saved. Obviously, we see this all the time.

But this observation simply does not answer the question of whether or not the Prior Regeneration of the Holy Spirit is required to make this belief and trust possible for him in the first place -- considering that Scripture ALSO teaches that while a Man is Unregenerate, he will NEVER believe and trust the Gospel.

So:

Ergo: In order to believe and trust the Gospel, is it necessary that an unsaved man must first be Regenerated by the Holy Spirit?

Paul tells us that a man must first be Regenerated by the Holy Spirit in order to believe, since he places the following Scriptures precedent to Romans 10:17 and Ephesians 1:13 -- you can't get there without going here first, in other words:

Seeing as the Scriptures adamantly teach that while a man is unregenerate, he NEVER WILL believe and trust the Gospel, when understanding the Order of Salvation you can't simply say "when a man believes and trusts the Gospel he is Saved" without first addressing his Unregenerate State which the Bible says makes it impossible that he should believe and trust the Gospel. So: given that it is impossible that a man should believe and trust the Gospel while he is Unregenerate, then -- In order to believe and trust the Gospel, is it necessary that an unsaved man must first be Regenerated by the Holy Spirit?

Yes, or No?

219 posted on 10/20/2004 4:28:48 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 213 | View Replies ]


To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; Starwind; gracebeliever
Can an unregenerated man sincerely pray to be regenerated?

If not, would that mean that everyone who actually and sincerely does pray to be regenerated already has been regenerated?

221 posted on 10/20/2004 5:10:29 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 219 | View Replies ]

To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; Starwind; bondserv; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; P-Marlowe
First of all, had to do some work and make some money, so I haven't had the time to reply much and won't until next week. However, it seems this whole debate on when regeneration occurs is akin to majoring on the minors, or debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It really does not make much difference other than to theologians and other hairsplitters. The articles of faith are not violated whether one believes regeneration occurs before or after a person is saved. We may as well be debating the Lapsarian controversy, which would likewise do little for edifying the saints.

That said, OP, the verses you cite, in the post being replied to, Ro. 9:15-18 and Eph. 1:4-6 are typical Calvinist proof texts that in no way proves that "Paul tells us a man must first be Regenerated..." There is a context to each of these passages, whether you agree with them or not.

Romans 9 is part of the great dispensational section of Romans dealing with Israel's past, present and future (Ch. 9-11). Here Paul deals with how God could set aside Israel and turn to the Gentiles. Paul being a Jew after the flesh (9:3), anticipates and responds to questions Jews might have when learning that God has turned to Gentiles. As a common rhetorical device, which is found in many places in Scripture, he raises a question then answers it himself. There are at least six of these questions Paul asks and answers in these three chapters.

The question Paul asks and responds to in 9:8-33 is, "How can God use Gentiles when we Jews are God's chosen vessel?" In this section, Paul uses several illustrations from history showing that God can choose whomever He wants to accomplish His purpose, and if He chooses to go outside the box, then it is His prerogative to do so. Hence the illustration of Esau and Jacob. Tradition says that Esau, being the elder, should have been the one chosen, but God decided in His own sovereignty to choose Jacob to become father of the chosen nation. The next illustration is in verse 15 where Moses is the example. if the reference passage is checked in Exodus 32,33, the issue is whether God will continue to use Israel, or abandon them and create a new nation in Moses. Nothing about salvation and regeneration here.

In Romans 9:16, Paul summarizes and shows the basis by which God did not destroy Israel through His mercy, and also to Moses by showing His glory. Then Paul uses Pharaoh as the example in verse 17. I don't have time to do it for you, but if you check the words in Ex. 9:16 that Paul quotes from, the words "raised" in v. 16 and "stand" in v. 17 are the same Hebrew word.

In Romans 9:18 the passage continues regarding Pharaoh. Checking back to Exodus, there are three separate Hebrew words used for "harden." If you really dig into this passage, you will see that Pharaoh already had his heart set on not letting Israel go. God, in accordance with His will, "strengthened" Pharaoh in his resolve to not let them go until all of the plagues were completed. Without going any further, it is obvious, maybe painfully so for some, that individual salvation is not the issue here, but national calling and service. Therefore, the issue of regeneration is not in the proper interpretation of what Paul is relating.

The key in Eph. 1:4 is the two words: IN HIM. Paul is addressing saved people, 1:1, so initial salvation is not the issue, hence no application of when regeneration occurs. This verse makes it clear the we are not chosen in and of ourselves. It also makes clear that God does not elect to save some and not others. What Paul tells them, and us, is the purpose of the election, "That we should be holy and without blame before Him." (4b) The "us" in this passage refers to the Body of Christ; thus being "in Him," the true elect of God, is how anyone becomes part of the elect. Verses 5 & 6, overly simplified, shows that God's predetermined will is our sonship adoption, which is how we got into the Body of Christ. And because of His grace and our adoption into Christ's body, we are "accepted in the beloved." Now that is truly great news and is something to truly be grateful for, grasp and understand.

Have a great weekend.
234 posted on 10/22/2004 3:46:02 PM PDT by gracebeliever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 219 | View Replies ]

To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; gracebeliever; P-Marlowe
When asked to refute gracebeliever's statement that "we hear the Word, trust the Word, believe the Word and then get sealed with the Holy Spirit Himself" and elaborate on how Rom 10:17 and Eph 1:13 applies or not, OrthodoxPresbyterian, in his post #219, answers:

Romans 10:17 and Ephesians 1:13 simply state that when an unsaved man believes and trusts the Gospel he is Saved. Obviously, we see this all the time.

OP, I'm sure you know Rom 10:17 and Eph 1:13 go further and explicitly state the sequence of hearing preceding faith and belief, and that Eph 1:13 further states belief and being sealed in the Holy Spirit follows hearing the word. OP, you ignored when hearing and belief occurs relative to regeneration in the sequences of Rom 10:17 and Eph 1:13 - which sequence is what is being argued, not that belief occurs at all.

To elaborate, gracebeliever in his first post #72 (replying to OrthodoxPresbyterian's post #64) argues from Rom 10:17 & Eph 1:13:

You state that "God creates Faith within a spiritually dead Man." It may seem to be splitting hairs, but Romans 10:17 teaches that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." While God is the author of His Book through God the Holy Spirit, it seems one must first hear and believe, i.e., have faith, before the work of regeneration occurs.

For example, in Eph. 1:13, we're told "In whom ye also trusted (have faith in), after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also after that ye believed (have faith in), ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise." The order seems to be that we hear the Word, trust the Word, believe the Word and then get sealed with the Holy Spirit Himself. So it appears from this Scripture that we must have faith before we are regenerated, which is an act of the Holy Spirit, Titus 3:4,5 (one of the only two instances of the word regeneration in the NT), Romans 8:11. While this may happen virtually instantaneously when one believes and is saved, Paul, as directed by the Holy Spirit, is rather specific in the order.

Here then are Rom 10:17 and Eph 1:13 (all cites below are NASB):

Rom 10:14-17 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!" However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?" So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Paul rhetorically asks how can someone believe what they have not yet heard and answers that their faith comes from hearing. "Comes from" - faith (and belief) follows from first hearing (or reading) the word.

Eph 1:13-14 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Paul now explicitly and specifically states after listening and having also believed then were they sealed by the Spirit. Again the scriptural sequence is that hearing the word (the gospel) precedes believing and sealing.

It is this explicit scriptural sequence from Rom 10:17 & Eph 1:13 which (in gracebeliever's phrasing The order seems to be that we hear the Word, trust the Word, believe the Word and then get sealed with the Holy Spirit Himself) OP has not yet addressed, let alone refuted.

OrthodoxPresbyterian further concludes in his post #219:

So: given that it is impossible that a man should believe and trust the Gospel while he is Unregenerate, then -- In order to believe and trust the Gospel, is it necessary that an unsaved man must first be Regenerated by the Holy Spirit? Yes, or No?

A false premise precedes the question; that being "given that it is impossible that a man should believe and trust the Gospel while he is Unregenerate".

Scripture records many instances where the unregenerate believe something - sometimes they believe a lie, but yet other times they believe the gospel - scripture records both by the unregenerate as well as the regenerate.

But that is not surprising. We "believe" in something about which we have knowledge, which knowledge may be provable or not. If the knowledge is provable (such as a spherical earth) then our belief is fact-based. If the knowledge is unprovable (such as being indwelt by the Holy Spirit) then our belief is faith-based.

God instilled in all men the intellectual ability to think about and evaluate their knowledge and then commensurately to believe or disbelieve. Believing or disbelieving is as natural an ability as thinking and is a prerequisite to human physical survival as well as spiritual rebirth.

The critical difference is: In what do I believe or what knowledge do I have in which to believe? If I believe I can jump off a cliff and fly then I will fall and die; if I believe that two minus two equals four then I'll never balance my checkbook and go broke; if I believe that a geographical globe maps the earth then I can correctly navigate; if I believe (sincerely believe) the gospel then I'll receive salvation from God.

Specifically, the scripture passages below demonstrate that one does not need to be regenerated first to believe the gospel, and that hearing or reading the gospel precedes belief in the gospel and subsequent regeneration. The passages are grouped into:

  1. Belief is based on knowledge received.
  2. Beliefs can be correct or mistaken.
  3. Belief follows after hearing or reading about whatever is to be believed.
  4. The gospel can be believed by the unregenerate.

To correctly discuss whether "regeneration" precedes or follows "belief" requires scriptural definitions of both terms.

The English word "believe" is translated from the Greek pisteuo (Strong's 4100):

pisteuo
pist-yoo'-o
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

from G4102; to believe, entrust: - believe (118), believed (73), believers (3), believes (29), believing (10), do (1), entrust (1), entrusted (6), entrusting (1), has faith (1).

The English word "regeneration" is translated from the Greek paliggenesia (Strong's 3824):

paliggenesia
pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah
From G3825 and G1078; (spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act), that is, (figuratively) spiritual renovation; specifically Messianic restoration: - regeneration.

paliggenesia; from G3825 and G1078; regeneration, renewal: - regeneration (2).

Regeneration, restoration, renovation, rebirth. Occurs in Mat_19:28, which refers to the coming state of the whole creation, equivalent to the restoration of all things of Act_3:21 which will occur when the Son of Man shall come in His glory. In this sense, it is equivalent to apokatástasis (G605), restitution. The washing of regeneration (paliggenesía, Tit_3:5) refers to the spiritual rebirth of the individual soul.

The Mat 19:28 use of regeneration is not applicable as it refers to the regeneration (restoration) of all things at Jesus 2nd coming, whereas Titus 3:5 refers to the regeneration (new birth) of each individual believer, to wit:

Tit 3:5-7 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration3824 and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Tit 3:5-7 makes clear that individual regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit are characteristics of salvation. The believer's salvation or redemption is sealed (Strong's 4972) by the Holy Spirit as made clear in 2Co 1:21-22, Eph 1:13-14, and Eph 4:30, to wit:

2Co 1:21-22 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed4972 us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Eph 1:13-14 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed4972 in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Eph 4:30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed4972 for the day of redemption.

Collectively, these four passages (Tit 3:5-7, 2Co 1:21-22, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30) provide a scriptural implication that "regeneration" is a characteristic of salvation or redemption which is accompanied by "sealing" with the Holy Spirit. Or conversely, the unregenerate are not yet sealed by the Holy Spirit or saved.

Note: occasionally below I refer to this scriptural implication that 'regeneration is a characteristic of salvation accompanied by sealing' by the short hand notation "regeneration (saved and sealed)". The short hand is not intended to redefine "regeneration" but merely to refer back to this scriptural implication that being saved and sealed accompanies regeneration.

1. Belief is based on knowledge received:

Joh 20:24-29 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe4100." After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, "Peace be with you." Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing4103." Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed4100? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed4100."

Thomas was a disciple of Jesus and had previously acknowledged Jesus as Lord (Joh 14:5), which acknowledgment I presume OrthodoxPresbyterian would stipulate is predicated on being regenerated. Yet here in Joh 20:24-29 a "regenerated" Thomas is disbelieving (for at least 8 days) a resurrection that the other "regenerated" disciples believed. All disciples presumably being "regenerated", the only difference is that Thomas had not seen evidence, but when he saw evidence then he believed as well - i.e., belief requires evidence to precede it. As does believing the word requires (at a minimum) hearing to precede it.

Those of us who have not personally directly seen the evidence of a risen Jesus Christ yet believe the Gospel reports of scripture, are blessed. But regardless, our "belief" follows from and is based on the written evidence of scripture that we hear or read.

Act 1:3 To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

That the belief of even regenerated believers (the twelve disciples in this instance) is based on received evidence is further reinforced by Acts 1:3.

"Many convincing proofs" were needed for the disciples (not just Thomas) to believe in the resurrection. Belief is not a function of regeneration, but rather belief is a human intellectual conclusion arrived at the end of a process of evaluating evidence read, heard or seen and, consequently, belief in the Gospel naturally follows hearing or reading the Gospel, and then regeneration follows (or accompanies) that belief.

Joh 20:30-31 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe4100 that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing4100 you may have life in His name.

Written so that those who read [about these signs] may then believe and have life.

Without the prior writing and reading, what is to have been believed? Belief, even blind faith belief, requires some knowledge about which the belief is held. Without first hearing or reading the gospel, in what precisely would any of us then believe?

Are we to understand that God wrote the Bible to be read only by those who were already regenerated (also saved and sealed - as per the scriptural implications of "regeneration") when they first read it? Or was the Bible written also that the unregenerate (unsaved and unsealed) have something in which to believe or disbelieve when they first read it?

2. Beliefs can be correct or mistaken:

2Th 2:8-12 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe4100 what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Here we have an example of sincere (albeit deluded) belief in a falsehood being based on or following a God-sent delusion. So the unregenerate can believe a delusion. Truth is not always believed - falsehood can be believed as well - but either belief or disbelief again follows or is based on some knowledge or information - a delusion in this case.

Jam 2:19 You believe4100 that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe4100, and shudder.

James points out demons (clearly unregenerate) also believe in God. If unregenerate demons can believe in God, can not an unregenerate man upon hearing or reading the gospel also believe in God? While man's receipt of salvation further depends upon accepting and trusting Christ as Savior, Lord and Master and repenting (which demons do not), is man (even fallen man) so intellectually inferior to demons that unregenerate man can not believe what demons also believe?

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, do not believe4100 every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

John, speaking to the "beloved" (regenerated, saved and sealed believers) cautions them about the danger of believing a false spirit. Since even regeneration is no guarantee of believing only truth, but requires an intellectual testing exercise to weed out falsehood, that same intellectual exercise must likewise be done by the unregenerate to likewise weed out falsehood from truth.

It is that intellectual weeding of falsehood from truth, the weighing of evidence (read or heard) that underlies the beliefs or disbeliefs we form. The unregenerate have no intellectual impairment that precludes them from weighing evidence and reaching true beliefs thereupon. If their belief is sincere that the world is round, they'll be good unsaved navigators. But if their belief is sincere that Jesus is their Savior and Lord, they'll be saved and regenerated. In either case, evidence is first read or heard, then weighed or tested, and then believed or disbelieved, regenerate or not.

3. Belief follows after hearing or reading about whatever is to be believed:

Luk 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe4100 and be saved.

In explaining the parable of the sower, Jesus teaches that a consequence of the word being removed from a person's heart is they will not believe and then not be saved. Conversely, hearing or reading the word (and retaining it) is a prerequisite of belief, followed or accompanied by salvation.

Rom 10:14-17 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed4100? How will they believe4100 in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!" However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED4100 OUR REPORT?" So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

As previously pointed out at the top of this post, Paul rhetorically asks how can someone believe what they have not yet heard and answers that their faith comes from hearing. Faith (and belief) follows from hearing the word. Faith or belief in the word is based on something that was first read or heard. Paul does not predicate belief on regeneration (being saved and sealed), but on hearing or reading. Paul's rhetorical question is how can an unregenerate person believe something they have not heard (or read)? Clearly, they must first hear or read it.

The change from the unregenerate who is ignorant of the gospel to the unregenerate who has heard the gospel, is a change of knowledge or evidence received. Subsequently, that new knowledge or evidence is then believed or disbelieved. One cannot believe or disbelieve what one does not know. One must first hear, read or see it to then believe or disbelieve it.

Eph 1:13-14 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed4100, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Paul now explicitly and specifically states after listening and having also believed then they were they sealed by the Spirit. Again the scriptural sequence is that hearing the word (the gospel) precedes believing and sealing.

4. The gospel can be believed by the unregenerate:

Luk 8:13 "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe4100 for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

In further explaining the parable of the sower, Jesus teaches that the word can be received with joy accompanied by belief for a while, but then fall away.

So, how does a regenerated (saved and sealed) believer not persevere and maintain their belief? They lacked "firm root" is the superficial answer.

Which in turn only begs the deeper question, how does regeneration (saved and sealed) that is sufficient for belief then fail to establish firm root?

The scriptural consistent answer is that those on rocky soil were not regenerated prior to believing what they heard, nor did those on rocky soil have "firm root", and those on rocky soil did not have a sincere saving belief. They believed for a while without being regenerated.

Mat 18:2-6 And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe4100 in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Jesus explicitly states that children believe in Him. Are children regenerated (saved and sealed) or unregenerate?

If children are regenerated, then when were they unregenerate? Generally, as of "adult" age, are not most adults "unregenerate" by default (hence everyone's need for regeneration or rebirth)? So when and how therefore does one stumble and "lose" the regeneration one perhaps formerly had as a child?

Or is it simply that children, like adults, are by default unregenerate but children (unencumbered and open in their thinking) can "believe" in Jesus until the thorns and vicissitudes of later life make most of them jaded, cynical and unbelieving (like those beside the road or on rocky soil as taught in the parable of the sower). Consequently, children believe without being first regenerated, and adults can likewise believe as regeneration is not the prerequisite for "belief" but rather thinking that is open and receptive to the evidence presented.

Further, suppose, hypothetically, that Jesus' earthly ministry had lasted 30 years (until he was about 60), and suppose Thomas (as a child) was one of those about whom Jesus said one of these little ones who believe in Me, and further suppose that in later life Thomas came to be the disciple who disbelieved in Jesus resurrection as he had been told (Joh 20:24-29). Would Thomas have had an ability as a child to believe in Jesus, but then lose that ability as an adult to believe in Jesus resurrection only to regain that ability to believe upon seeing evidence? Is a regenerated "belief" so fickle, or is it that "belief" is not predicated on regeneration but rather on fallible human understanding?

1Co 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe4100.

Again Paul makes it explicitly clear the purpose of preaching is to provide the gospel to save (regenerate and seal) those who in fact believe [the gospel].

Presumably preaching is done to the unregenerate since Christ came to seek and save the lost, and upon hearing what has been preached, some of those unregenerate subsequently believed and were saved (regenerated and sealed). But they were unregenerate (unsaved and unsealed) when they first heard and believed what was preached.

Either belief or unbelief is possible in unregenerate people who hear or read the gospel.

Eph 1:13-14 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed4100, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Emphasizing a different aspect of this passage now, Paul explicitly states that believing and sealing with the Holy Spirit followed after listening to the gospel. Consequently, prior to their hearing the gospel, these people were neither sealed nor regenerated yet they believed what they heard.

In summary, the unregenerate can read or hear the gospel (truth), and then correctly believe it and then receive salvation, or disbelieve it and remain condemned.

OP, you assert and declare (without demonstrating the scriptural basis) that "We know that Scripture teaches that that while a Man is Unregenerate, he will NEVER believe and trust the Gospel."

Well, we don't know that. Please show in detail your scriptural basis for your position. Further, to argue that an unsaved man must first be "regenerated" in order to "believe" and trust the gospel, requires a scripture-based definition of regeneration and belief that consistently explains how:


246 posted on 10/24/2004 10:49:45 PM PDT by Starwind (The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only true good news)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 219 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson