Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: gracebeliever
”It is abundantly clear from a study of election that God throughout the Bible has different elections for different purposes.”

To quote Yoda; “No, no different.” It only seems different from the synergistic perspective because it’s the only way to get the scriptures to fit. For years I puzzled over the Gospel of John (along with some other scriptures) because I couldn’t get the pieces to fit. I would end up saying, “Well, it a mystery to me. Guess I’ll have to wait till I get to Heaven.” People end up having a theology that have different methods of salvation, different methods of election, different methods of…pick a topic. God does not have different methods of salvation or election or anything else. God is consistent.

While you’re correct that it matters WHAT we were chosen for it’s equally important to understand we WERE chosen. Not in some collective group for those who would make the right decision but as individuals. And it wasn't by any "good" decision that we could make for we would never chose the right decision. (If Adam in his unfallen state couldn't make the right decision what makes us think that we in our fallen state will?)

Our Lord Jesus felt this was an important enough issue that He addressed it head on.

You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.” John 15:16

and again:

If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.” John 15:19

In John 15 our Lord Jesus 1) chose us, 2) appointed us to bear fruit, 3) our fruit would remain, 4) so that our prayers would be heard. There are few greater truths than this. He has chosen us, He has made sure we will bear fruit, He will make sure our fruit survives and all of this so that our prayers will be heard by the Father. He is indeed our Great Shepherd who is watching over His sheep and no one will snatch us out of His hands.

210 posted on 10/20/2004 8:52:43 AM PDT by HarleyD
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 207 | View Replies ]


To: HarleyD
Don't have much time right now, but John 15:16 does not mean that only the "chosen" can be saved. You have to remember that Christ is addressing the Twelve here (this is the Upper Room Discourse) and is not referring to their salvation but to their calling to the apostleship and to the great authority they will have in the kingdom. These verses do not apply to the Body of Christ today, but refer to privileged positions of service for the Twelve.

If your logic is correct regarding this meaning of called to salvation, then how do you handle John 6:70, "Jesus answered them, Have I not CHOSEN you twelve, AND ONE OF YOU IS A DEVIL?" Also what about John 13:17-18, "If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them. I speak not of you all: I KNOW WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me?" Judas wasn't chosen to salvation was he? But he was chosen to "lift up his heel" against the Christ. Acts 1:15ff tells us that without question Judas was an apostle with full authority but it is also clear he was lost. Once more, it is clear that election does not mean "called to salvation" but "called to service." Jesus, being God, knew Judas' thoughts and motivations and He "chose" him for a specific purpose, "that the scripture may be fulfilled."

So I guess it does make a difference what one is "called" for. God does have different reasons for election as well as different ways of dealing with people. For example, the verses you cite in John 15 are surrounded with "if" phrases, or conditional terms that are clearly law, or performance based acceptance. Today we are under God's grace program and not under the law. Therefore, God expects different things from us and does not hold us to Israel's program of law.
215 posted on 10/20/2004 9:59:10 AM PDT by gracebeliever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 210 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson