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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
An End to a Means? In other words, simply the Clay?

Is that what John means when he says God is Love? Is it self-love? Self-mutilation for self glorification? Maybe I am missing something OP. Maybe it's just how we express ourselves.

Naive or not, knowing the difference between Good and Evil or not, they did know this: "Thou shalt not eat of it"

If they were perfect they would not have disobeyed. They were therefore not perfect. They were mentally children, provided for, with no needs and no shortages. And children must come of age by leaving their childhood home.

They simply did what they were predestined by God to do to fall from Grace. Why punish them if theirs was not to decide? Where is the sin in that?

The Elect Angels never Fell at all. Nor were the Reprobate Angels offered any possibility of Redemption

Angels are rational beings but since they lack body they also lack bodily passions. Those who were elect (called upon by God) and who turned to God on thier own afterwards remained (naturally they were all elect). Those who fell from God fell on their own -- and for the same reason -- to be "like God."

It's late. Thank you for interesting and challenging viewpoints.

145 posted on 10/19/2004 9:20:03 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
Angels are rational beings but since they lack body they also lack bodily passions. Those who were elect (called upon by God) and who turned to God on thier own afterwards remained (naturally they were all elect). Those who fell from God fell on their own -- and for the same reason -- to be "like God." It's late. Thank you for interesting and challenging viewpoints.

Thanks for taking as much time as you have with my arguments.

However, since you have advanced the theory that (I summarize) "The Fall and Redemption, etc., were necessary in order for Men to become Spiritual Grown-Ups", I must repeat my question regarding the Elect Angels -- who never underwent a Fall, and will never undergo Redemption:

Is it, then, your contention that the Archangels Saint Michael and Saint Gabriel are, well -- "not Spiritual Grown-Ups"?

155 posted on 10/19/2004 10:53:07 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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