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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; xzins; Corin Stormhands; P-Marlowe; connectthedots; the_doc; RnMomof7
This Arminian heresy mercilessly shuts the door of salvation to infants who are in every way incapable of their own will to make a "decision for Christ."

You had me reading eagerly to this point - then you swipe needlessly to bolster the calvinist position

you if anyone can present a rational argument based on the merits of calvinism alone.

do you honestly feel our heresy is damning? and only double pre-dest 5pt OP's are non heretical and valid?

The thief on the Cross had no time to investigate theology - by grace alone is th e mantra, isn't it ?

that aside.......

I take issue with your application of......In Mark 10:14, Jesus Christ said, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven." He then admonished adults in the next verse, "Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it." .......clearly, "receiving" the kingdom of God as a child speaks to our complete surrender of will to that of God, Christ and the Holy Spirit - much in the same manner a young child relies completely upon the parents for their feeding and care - in this case, spiritual and eternal

In no way does it intimate that persons dying in infancy are saved and received into glory.

continuing - Old dead Calvinist, Matthew Henry (albeit a lukewarm 4pt T.U.L. P.) splashes water on your premise

Verses 13-16 Some parents or nurses brought little children to Christ, that he should touch them, in token of his blessing them. It does not appear that they needed bodily cures, nor were they capable of being taught: but those who had the care of them believed that Christ's blessing would do their souls good; therefore they brought them to him. Jesus ordered that they should be brought to him, and that nothing should be said or done to hinder it. Children should be directed to the Saviour as soon as they are able to understand his words. Also, we must receive the kingdom of God as little children; we must stand affected to Christ and his grace, as little children to their parents, nurses, and teachers.

"Christ's blessing would do their souls good" intimates there soul is in a condition that needs propitiation - and we know that to be true why ? .......the_doc told us about the damning nature of original sin.......bringing us to the the fork in the road.

Does God pardon that original sin in unbaptized infants? -or does He fully pardon the sins of those children despite the fact they have not been brough to Christ as Mark 10:14 so clearly presents as His desire?

I ask that honestly and seriously - not trying to be a smart alec

Hope you are feeling better.......I had opportunity to spend a few days in Jacksonville and St. Augustine last week - lovely area - and the locals were very polite and kind

10 posted on 10/15/2004 4:01:14 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Revelation 911
You had me reading eagerly to this point - then you swipe needlessly to bolster the calvinist position ~~ you if anyone can present a rational argument based on the merits of calvinism alone.

Er... I'm a Presbyterian Layman. I am not the Reverend Baptist Daniel Parks.

Rev. Parks wrote the article; I just posted it.

Does God pardon that original sin in unbaptized infants? -or does He fully pardon the sins of those children despite the fact they have not been brough to Christ as Mark 10:14 so clearly presents as His desire? I ask that honestly and seriously - not trying to be a smart alec

God brings His Own to Himself. If -- as John Calvin believed -- He has elected to salvation all those whom He has ordained to die in Infancy, then it logically follows that He effects His election by regenerating them in the womb (as he did John the Baptist and King David, so we know that there are Biblical examples thereof) prior to their death.

As Regeneration is purely divine-monergistic in every case, child or adult, this Regeneration is surely as efficacious as that created in an Adult (who is, admittedly, able to express his newly-wrought Belief in outward verbal confession, as an infant child is not; but such verbal profession of faith is the result of God's monergistic Regeneration, not the cause).

13 posted on 10/15/2004 5:57:45 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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To: Revelation 911

I've found a study of the doctrine of imputations is helpful in this topic.

There are real and judicial imputations spoken of throughout Scripture.

One type of imputation is the placement of soul life into an infant at its birth. Concurrent with that imputation of life is an imputation of condemnation upon the person because of their old sin nature(also referred to as original sin, Adamic sin, OSN, or sin nature) inherited geneologically from Adam.

This is very important, because one must be condemned before they may be saved.

The doctrine leads us to conclude that if the person has never had the opportunity to consider or place faith in Christ, then God the Father is free to save them by grace alone without infringing upon any other divine characteristics. This would also apply to infants, idiots, and possibly the isolated heathen not yet considering the creation and the Creator.

Phrased another way, when a baby dies, God could not save him if He had to wait for the first personal sin of the baby. Instead, God condemns the baby at birth as a matter of grace due to the imputation of Adam's original sin causing a biological sin nature. Then if the baby dies, at anytime after death and prior to being afforded a chance at hearing and understanding the gospel, God is free to save him, i.e. unencumbered by His own Holiness, ..to save him through grace.


369 posted on 02/06/2005 9:56:29 AM PST by Cvengr (<;^))
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