Posted on 10/15/2004 1:04:27 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
I would imagine, that since God created what we know of as logic and contradiction, then it's quite possible for Him to act in a way, that to us, appears illogical or contradictory.
From what I have heard, there is only one that has allegedly come back from the dead. If you can name some others, I will try to check it out. While, I believe that God can bring back the dead, I just don't believe He has.
No, but God did repent according to the OT. So you tell me.
God isn't logical?
Sooo, you (Baptists?) make "sense" of God? And whose logic does God use? If you look at anything we humans make, does it even resemble anything which God created? Does the Creation make "sense" to you? Is that how "logically" you would have created the Universe?
Get off your high horse and deified humanism of the West, where we humans even have a "right" to life! Really? How is that logical? How can something you can't keep be your right? God's thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways. Do not flatter yourself that your logic is the key to "understanding" God's Wisdom.
The definition of faith does not include logic or understanding. No need to have a PhD to be faithful. The best we can hope (NT definition of faith) for is to find that narrow path to God, and it's ain't logic that will get you there.
Rather than trying to find the logic of man in the Scripture, seek the Spirit.
A) I'm not arguing that the trials were fair; perhaps some were?
B) Matt 5:18
Whoa. Off on a tangent. Go back to my post #326. I hold that some infants are saved, some are not. You were going to take me to task for my heresy of predestination before we hauled down this well trod path.
He obviously knew what He would do beforehand; it only looked, to us, like he "changed his mind". Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Sooo, you (Baptists?) make "sense" of God?In a limited way, yes. God is rational; agreed? His creation (us) will have some of His attributes. As to the rest of your questions in this paragraph, in order: His; No; In part, yes; No, I'd have botched it.
Next paragraph, you must have me confused with another.
Rather than trying to find the logic of man in the Scripture, seek the Spirit.
and the Spirit filled Christian seeks to understand; Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
God is a rational Being.
The great thinkers say that God doesn't go against logic, He goes outside of logic. On this point, I think we agree, to some extent.
From what I have heard, there is only one that has allegedly come back from the dead. If you can name some others, I will try to check it out. While, I believe that God can bring back the dead, I just don't believe He has.
Well, if you don't believe Jesus was raised on the third day; it would be a waste of my time to list the others who were brought back to life. (none to my knowledge since the time of the Apostles.)
And His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts! So, is God subject to logic of Creation or is he outside of the laws of this world?
Have you ever looked at the world around you and the sky above? Does any of that make "sense" to you? Is it rational to have billions of galaxies spinning in endless vacuum?
We don't know if God thinks. We don't know how God designs and creates. Whatever it is, it's not our reason for sure. It's not our logic. God is not bound by created relationships of the physical world.
We know God through faith, not through reason. God is a Mystery that is not ours to solve. God gave us the ability to know love and mercy and justice -- things you cannot find in nature, or logically arrive at.
I find predestination and talk of "selects" disgusting and disturbing. Predestination makes a mockery of the promise of the resurrection.
I've found a study of the doctrine of imputations is helpful in this topic.
There are real and judicial imputations spoken of throughout Scripture.
One type of imputation is the placement of soul life into an infant at its birth. Concurrent with that imputation of life is an imputation of condemnation upon the person because of their old sin nature(also referred to as original sin, Adamic sin, OSN, or sin nature) inherited geneologically from Adam.
This is very important, because one must be condemned before they may be saved.
The doctrine leads us to conclude that if the person has never had the opportunity to consider or place faith in Christ, then God the Father is free to save them by grace alone without infringing upon any other divine characteristics. This would also apply to infants, idiots, and possibly the isolated heathen not yet considering the creation and the Creator.
Phrased another way, when a baby dies, God could not save him if He had to wait for the first personal sin of the baby. Instead, God condemns the baby at birth as a matter of grace due to the imputation of Adam's original sin causing a biological sin nature. Then if the baby dies, at anytime after death and prior to being afforded a chance at hearing and understanding the gospel, God is free to save him, i.e. unencumbered by His own Holiness, ..to save him through grace.
Please explain to me the difference between going 'against logic' and going 'outside' logic. For humans, how is this difference presented?
Agree entirely! We can only know of Him, we can't know entirely. It seems as though we're not in disagreement about the big things, we just don't agree on the small things.
So, is God subject to logic of Creation or is he outside of the laws of this world?
God is not subject to anything we can comprehend. Only His own Being must He not contradict.
Have you ever looked at the world around you and the sky above? Does any of that make "sense" to you? Is it rational to have billions of galaxies spinning in endless vacuum?
Yes. Some. Why not?
Ah. You're a Universalist.
it's quite possible for Him to act in a way, that to us, appears illogical or contradictory.
Against logic: "All lawyers are liars. I am a lawyer."
Outside logic: Gen 1:3 "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
"logic" itself was 'recognized' by us humans; and our understanding is flawed.
1Corinthians 13:9-12 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Isn't our understanding yet still as children?
Next to God, it's probably less than childlike....we aren't even in the same game.
We couldn't even begin to contradict Him, even if it were possible!
Yes. Some. Why not?
Because we don't design anything even close. As far as we can tell, the entire Creation is going around in circles! No beginning and no end! Do our houses, clothes, machines, or roads look anylthing like His Creation? I don't think so. So, if His design "makes sense" to you -- you are above and beyond all human beings.
baby kitten, still with closed eyes?
You need to rethink.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
1Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
If there were no begining to God's creation, if there is no end; the universe is un-caused, and time is without meaning. God alone is un-caused. He created and sustains the universe.
protazoa
You need to stay within context. I never denied that Creation took place or even hinted that Creation will not end.
What I said was that the Creation was designed in such a way that it is always moving, going nowhere, spinning around in circles without a starting point and without a finishing point (in this motion), and that we don't make things run around in circles! In fact, "running around in circles" (which includes the entire Universe) is a derogatory remark in the English language -- implying a waste of time!
My point was that we don't think, create or do anything like God, and that saying that God's Creation "makes sense" is an insult to God's wisdom.
"makes sense" to a limited extent. As in a child mixing colors of paint. We can understand which colors need to be mixed with which other, to get a third color. We have no concept of light, reflection of different wavelengths, the chemical composition of the paint... The limited part we do understand, "makes sense". The whole of God's creation; no way. Is the current context clear enough, or shall I try once more?
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