The Ecstatic Heresy

Christianity Today ^ | Oct 2004 | Robert Sanders

[xzins]

As a result, it is not enough for orthodox Christians to simply say that Jesus called God "Father," or that Scripture condemns homosexuality, or that Jesus commands us to evangelize, or that the universal tradition of the church requires baptism prior to Eucharist. Ecstatics know all this. They relativize these claims by viewing them as outmoded expressions of an evolving faith that progressively expresses the Indescribable.

[xzins]

The spirit of antichrist denies the Christ came in the flesh.

Consider a further example, the Resurrection. If Jesus was bodily raised by God, then God acted physically at a specific time and place. This would make God an agent, as if God—like an electron, a tree, or a cat—was literally affecting matter. Ecstatics would not understand God in such a "crude" fashion. As a result, many ecstatics deny the bodily Resurrection. Many also deny biblical miracles, which they consider creations of primitive peoples who took felt experiences of the Holy and clothed them in language normally used for objects. By contrast, an orthodox perspective would trust in the biblical miracles, especially that God raised Jesus bodily from the dead, that the tomb was indeed empty.

[Pahuanui]

Many also deny biblical miracles, which they consider creations of primitive peoples who took felt experiences of the Holy and clothed them in language normally used for objects. By contrast, an orthodox perspective would trust in the biblical miracles, especially that God raised Jesus bodily from the dead, that the tomb was indeed empty.

I'm sorry, but do you have an actual point?

[xzins]

For your information and/or edification.

Is that what you're asking?

[Pahuanui]

Newp.

Far too often, people confuse 'ecstatic' with 'mystic' and interchange the two.

I myself need no further edification. I wanted to know if your post actually had a point, something concrete that you are hanging your hat on, or if you were just posting it, as it were, for whatever reason.

[xzins]

I've posted it because I agree with it.

However, it is primarily for info and edification.

In this article, ecstatic leans heavily on the word "transcendent."

[Pahuanui]

Ah, a non-answer.

Well, thanks for trying, in any case.

[AlbionGirl]

Bump for a later, more thorough read. Looks interesting.

But this kind of says it all, doesn't it?

Seeking a superficial unity, some denominational leaders opt for feelings over facts.

[xzins]

You're welcome.

I guess I have no idea what you're asking. Feel free to come back and ask it a different way.

[AlbionGirl]

And oddly enough, or maybe not, behind the ecstacy of the Ecstatics is a lethargy and enervation that is legion.

[xzins]

ping

[xzins]

Seeking a superficial unity, some denominational leaders opt for feelings over facts.

Yes, it nails how the ecstatic "theology" works out in the practical setting.

[xzins]

Yes, there is no dynamic for a church.

It is a dying (killing) church model.

[AAABEST]

or that the universal tradition of the church requires baptism prior to Eucharist.

Non-Catholics don't have a "Eucharist".

The Eucharist consists of fully believing that our Lord was telling us the plain truth that day in the temple (John 6) when He lost much of His following and scandalized the Pharisees. He reemphasized how important this was to Him at the very first mass on His very last night alive as a man on this earth.

The fact is that every single Sunday "service" in existence is rooted from this most holy mass. The very sad development is that these modern services are meals or celebrations spawned by unholy men who decided to do things their own way... as Christ's disenchanted followers did because they could not hear His words.

I honestly don't want to be harsh, but unless you are partaking of the body and blood of Lord Jesus it is NOT the Eucharist. To claim it as such is an duplicitous.

[xzins]

Check the affiliation of the author at the end of the article.

[AAABEST]

Check the affiliation of the author at the end of the article.

The unholy Anglicans who founded the Church of England rejected the true Eucharist to fulfill the worldly wishes of an insane and evil king.

Again, I'm not trying to be uncharitable, but it seems that simply stating the truth causes me to appear as such. Maybe someone else can impart this better than I.

[Pahuanui]

Again, I'm not trying to be uncharitable, but it seems that simply stating the truth causes me to appear as such. Maybe someone else can impart this better than I.

Are you trying to be imbecilic?

Oh, I don't mean to sound harsh, but I call's 'em like I see's 'em.

[AndrewC]

The Dammann case does reveal continuing differences in the United Methodist Church concerning the issue of homosexuality. The Council of Bishops is painfully aware of this disagreement. In such moments as this, we remember that our unity in Christ does not depend on unanimity of opinion. Rather, in Jesus Christ we are bound together by love that transcends our differences and calls us to stay at the table with one another.

When they finished, all of us stood up and applauded, with a lump in our throats and a tear in our eyes, as we watched them embrace one another. Convictions were not reconciled that day, but two people who held different convictions were reconciled in Christ.

How we all fit together, how our singularities are made sense of, how our divergent views and different understandings of God's intent are reconciled, passes all understanding. All that we can do is to travel on in faith and trust, knowing that all contradictions and paradoxes and seemingly irreconcilable truths—which seem both consistent and inconsistent with Scripture—are brought together in the larger and all- embracing truth of Christ, which, by Christ's own words, has yet to be fully drawn forth and known.

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

According to these church "leaders", Satan belongs in the congregation since he quotes scripture.

[xzins]

While you are being uncharitable, you are moreso demonstrating an erroneous view of history and a weak understanding of the power of God.

Henry VIII certainly removed the English Catholic Church from the Roman branch of the Church. However, he returned it to its prior affiliation with Orthodoxy that was the original affiliation of English Christianity....the Celtic Church of Patrick, Columba, Aiden.

Also, the power of God is not dependent on any king; it is first dependent upon the Holy Spirit who does work through any of his faithful ministers....of which there were many in Henry VIII's day.