Replies

"No one knows for positive what the fate of the unbaptised baby is. All we know for sure is that no one gets into heaven with any trace of sin on their souls. Since we are all conceived and born with sin on our souls and since Baptism is the remedy Christ left us for original sin, conventional reasoning tells us the only way an unbaptised infant can enter heaven if it were to be conceived without sin."

And then:

"Now, we know that, aside from Our Lord, only Our Lady was conceived without sin."

Your two comments quoted above demonstrate, clearly in my opinion, a very basic difference between the theology of the Eastern and Roman Churches, notwithstanding that the words used seem so very alike. I say basic because so much of our praxis as Orthodox or Roman Christians depends on our view of the sin of Adam or "Original Sin". There are multiple other differences, filioque springs immediately to mind, but the fundamental theological difference we are talking here about reaches right down into the pews, to the laity and expands out even to the way we look at the Cross and Resurrection and theosis. Your posts are important because they demonstrate that unity between the Roman and Eastern Churches will not be a simple matter of "you believe your way and I'll believe mine", much as that might be desired by many. We really are not two lungs of the same Church as the Pope would have it (much as that might be desirable). It has often been posited on these threads that re-union can only be accomplished if the Roman Church discards its dogma proclaimed after the 7th Ecumenical Council and both sides put everything that has developed since then on the table for decision. Divergent views on the Sin of Adam will undoubtedly top the discussion list, and frankly, filioque is a piece of cake compared to that one.

Divergent views on the Sin of Adam will undoubtedly top the discussion list, and frankly, filioque is a piece of cake compared to that one.

Been doing a little reading myself and found the following to be really interesting and comforting. Hope it interests others too.

Following is the first creed that an ecumenical council decreed. It was the Creed of the 318 Fathers of Nicaea in 325:

We believe in one God, Father, All-ruler, maker of everything visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the son of God, begotten unique out of the Father, that is out of the being of the Father; God out of God, light out of light, genuine God out of genuine God; begotten, not made; identical in being with the Father; the one through whom the universe was made, the things in heaven as well as the things on earth; for us human beings and for our salvation come down and incarnated, become man, executed, risen on the third day, gone up into heaven, and coming to judge the living and the dead.

And in the Holy Spirit.

The Catholic (and apostolic) church condemns those who say that there was 'then' when there was no son of God, and that he was not before he was begotten, and that he was made out of the things that are not, or who allege that he is out of a different hypostasis or being [from that of the Father] or that he is a creature or mutable or subject to change.

And here's the Second Creed, Creed of the 150 Fathers of Constantinople. Attributed to the second ecumenical Council.

We believe in one God, Father, All-ruler, maker of heaven and earth, of everything visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the unique son of God, begotten out of his Father before all ages; light out of light, genuine God out of genuine God; begotten, not made; identical in being with the Father; the one through whom the universe was made; for us human beings and for our salvation come down from heaven and endowed with flesh out of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and made a human being; crucified on our behalf under Pontius Pilate and executed and buried, and risen the third day according to the Scriptures, and gone up into heaven; and seated at the right hand of the Father, and coming again with glory to judge both the living and the dead; of whose kingly rule there shall be no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the lordly and life-giving one; proceeding out of the Father; jointly adored and jointly glorified along with the Father and the Son; the one that spoke through the prophets.

In a single holy catholic and apostolic church.

We confess a single baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

We await the resurrection of the dead and the life of the coming age. Amen.

I realize I am jumping on this thread a little late, but here is some food for thought:

Orthodoxy does not believe in the "original sin" as something we inherit; we inherit mortality and propensity to commit sin as a consequence of Adamn's sin, and not the sin inself.

Our salvation is based not on merit but on God's mercy. It has nothing to do with how many Hail Marys we recite, or how much money we donate or how many homeless shelters we build. You can't earn ot buy you way to Heaven!.

If I believe that God can save people thieves who, at their last moment repent, or me who was an unbeliever for many years, or somone like Saint Paul, who was guilty of stoning Christians, I have every reason to believe that God's mercy will prevail over those who have never sinned.