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To: PetroniusMaximus
Thats correct. Every unborn child who dies without Baptism as well as every infant or child who dies before the age of reason without first being baptized will never see the face of God - because they come into this world with sin i.e. the sin of Adam. I do not see how it can be otherwise - unless God, who is "the same yesterday, today and forever", changes His law of the NT.

Thats why since only baptism can give a child certain access to Heaven, that the Church teaches (taught) the importance of infant baptism for every child without undue delay, so much so that in an emergency, anyone can perform the baptism.

The Eccumenical Council of Florence (1438-1445) states: Holy baptism holds the first place among all the sacraments, for it is the gate of the spiritual life; through it we become members of Christ and of the body of the church. Since death came into the world through one person, unless we are born again of water and the spirit, we cannot, as Truth says, enter the kingdom of heaven. The matter of this sacrament is true and natural water, either hot or cold. The form is: I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit. But we do not deny that true baptism is conferred by the following words: May this servant of Christ be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit; or, This person is baptized by my hands in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit. Since the holy Trinity is the principle cause from which baptism has its power and the minister is the instrumental cause who exteriorly bestows the sacrament, the sacrament is conferred if the action is performed by the minister with the invocation of the holy Trinity. The minister of this sacrament is a priest, who is empowered to baptize in virtue of his office. But in case of necessity not only a priest or a deacon, but even a lay man or a woman, even a pagan and a heretic, can baptize provided he or she uses the form of the church and intends to do what the church does. The effect of this sacrament is the remission of all original and actual guilt, also of all penalty that is owed for that guilt. Hence no satisfaction for past sins is to be imposed on the baptized, but those who die before they incur any guilt go straight to the kingdom of heaven and the vision of God.

With regard to children, since the danger of death is often present and the only remedy available to them is the sacrament of baptism by which they are snatched away from the dominion of the devil and adopted as children of God, it admonishes that sacred baptism is not to be deferred for forty or eighty days or any other period of time in accordance with the usage of some people, but it should be conferred as soon as it conveniently can; and if there is imminent danger of death, the child should be baptized straightaway without any delay, even by a lay man or a woman in the form of the church, if there is no priest, as is contained more fully in the decree on the Armenians.

19 posted on 10/11/2004 4:01:11 AM PDT by Stubborn (It Is The Mass That Matters)
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To: Stubborn; latae sententiae
Every unborn child who dies without Baptism as well as every infant or child who dies before the age of reason without first being baptized will never see the face of God - because they come into this world with sin i.e. the sin of Adam.

I'm not arguing here because I applaud you for taking Baptism as the gravely important sacrament that it is, and my comment/opinions involve infants only.

By speaking in absolutes aren't we cancelling out God's Mercy? Aren't we essentially saying He must stick to His own rules? Rather than being a hard fast rule, isn't it better to think that in the case of infants it should absolutely be left to God to handle?

Thats why since only baptism can give a child certain access to Heaven, that the Church teaches (taught) the importance of infant baptism for every child without undue delay, so much so that in an emergency, anyone can perform the baptism

That's right, and how tragic and shameful that so many Catholic couples wait months on end to have their little ones baptized.

What of the child who is sadly and unexpectedly delivered still-born? God, in His Infinite Wisdom, has decided that that particular soul should leave the body. While we of course cannot know the mind of God, I think we can at least wonder: 'Why would God chose the soul of a baby knowing full well it never (humanly speaking) had a chance to be Baptized? Why would He call that soul to only to banish it from His Sight for eternity?
36 posted on 10/11/2004 9:18:14 AM PDT by sempertrad
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To: Stubborn

***Thats correct. Every unborn child who dies without Baptism as well as every infant or child who dies before the age of reason without first being baptized will never see the face of God ***

Your theology necessitates a theoretical construction (limbo) that is never mentioned in the Scriptures and does not reflect the character of the God of the Scriptures.



This is the God of the Scriptures...


Matthew 19

Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people, but Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven." And he laid his hands on them and went away.



Mark 10

And they were bringing children to him that he might touch them, and the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, "Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it." And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands on them.



Luke 18

Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them. And when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to him, saying, "Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it."


48 posted on 10/11/2004 12:24:02 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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