kosta50 wrote: "What God does with infants who die is an uncertainty and an unknown even to Catholic theologians. We trust that whatever God does is completely and always just and merciful, but we do not know the particulars of His decision."
That expresses perfectly what this Catholic believes.
I think that the rest is speculation.
Now, it is possible that God could reveal the answer, through a saint or an apparition, if He chose to. For the past 2000 odd years He has not chosen too, because He doesn't seem to think that it is terribly important for us to know the answer to this question. Indeed, I can probably tell you why He thinks that: because there isn't anything we can do about it anyway, so revealing this would simply be God performing parlor tricks for man. After all, if we could save the baby in the first place, we would. Since God takes lots of babies and lots of the unborn before baptism, and before there is even the chance for baptism, a divine revelation that gave us perfect vision into exactly what God does with those infant souls would not do anything for us: we couldn't change anything. (I would suppose that if it was something we COULD change, then God would have already revealed what to do.) Worse, any such divine revelation would be disputed, since there are vast bodies of Christians who would not want to believe, and therefore not accept, the content of the revelation because it conflicted with their religious prejudices. Divine revelation is perilous to everyone's soul, because if God takes the trouble to reveal Himself and make something clear, those who continue to cling to their pre-existing prejudices and to assert them over against the authority of God, such as the Pharisees did, get no credit from God for their zeal, but actually dig themselves a deeper hole for refusing the change their religion completely, on a dime, and drop all at once two thousand years of tradition because one man stood up, performed some miracles, and said "God says so."
We don't know what happens to unbaptized infants, or for that matter, unbaptized Hindu adults in Uttar Pradesh who have never had any exposure to the Church. We don't know what happens to devout Jews. We don't know what happens to saintly Christians who had a passel of lustful thoughts qualifying as "adultery in the heart" (per Jesus) just before a fatal car accident in which they died unshriven.
We don't know.
We trust in the mercy and justice of God, and rely upon that in believing that things will come out right in the end.
What we do know is that if we cling to the sacraments and keep our souls clean and keep turning to God, we will certainly go to Heaven. There is no doubt about that at all. Our knowledge, therefore, is of a positive nature. IF you are baptized and confirmed, confess your sins to keep your soul clean, and keep returning to God in communion, when you die, you will certainly be accepted into Heaven, without any doubt or concern whatsoever. You can die happy and in peace, knowing that you have gained the crown. That we know for sure, because we have done as God said to do, and kept drawing near to Him in the sacraments that He provided so that we would have a sure way of always accessing Him.
What happens when we try to "game" this and do part of it, but not all of it? Or if our parents were pagans who taught us wrong? All that we know for certain is that we will die and face God. What the nature of that encounter will be, we do NOT know for sure, but given who God is...and given the harshness and sharpness of God visible in this world...we know that the encounter is extremely perilous.
An analogy would be letting your family go without health insurance. Everything may turn out fine in the end. Indeed, probably nobody will get cancer or get hit by a truck. But maybe not. Not many people want to run that risk. Of course, children don't have a say in whether their parents insure them, and folks growing up in Uttar Pradesh can't get insurance if they wanted it.
The Sacraments are our spiritual insurance policy. They render what is unsure, and potentially very scary and alarmingly bad very sure, very safe, and certain of outcome. That we know.
What we don't know - in spite of our strenuous efforts to opine in ignorance and without clear divine instructions on the matter - is the outcome of every case that doesn't avail itself of the sacraments, or can't get them, or never heard of them.
I anticipate that the response will be a strenuous: "We do know, and it is divinely revealed", with some Biblical quotes. But those quotes are contradicted by other quotes and circumstances in the Bible, and the Bible does not provide a tool that says "This sentence has more authority than that sentence that says the opposite thing." Yes, there is an authoritative Church to help interpret those things, but even there we have to be careful. God didn't give the Church authority simply to give it authority. He gave it authority to be able to surely administer His sacraments. He revealed what he revealed, directly through visions, apostles, saints and Jesus. A thousand scholars poring over old letters coming to a consensus is NOT divine revelation. John being taken to Heaven to see the Apocalypse unfold is revelation. Mary standing before the Soubrious girl is revelation.
Fortuntately, the Church as a whole really does understand it, which is why the official position on the Church is: WE DON'T KNOW. We don't know, but we have faith in the loving and merciful God we worship. The catechism of the Church says that, and that is the OFFICIAL position of the Church. The cathechism, of course, trumps Acquinas, Origen, Augustine, and anyone else who has expressed his own opinion on the subject for the past 2000 years, because the Catechism is the teaching authority of the Church.
Now, if some individual over the past two millennia had written "God has revealed to me" it would be a different affair, because then it MIGHT be a divine revelation, and not the product of reasoning in the dark about things unknown. But in fact nobody HAS stood up and said "God revealed to me what happens to unbaptized babies", so we haven't faced whether to believe such a person or not.
He certainly hasn't revealed an answer to that question to ME, but I have no doubt at all that unbaptized babies are in Heaven, because that would accord with my belief in the nature of the God I worship. If, in fact, unbaptized babies are all cast into the eternal lake of fire, then God is a demon and I'd hate him rather than worship Him.
But I don't believe the latter for an instant.
I do find it interesting that there are people who actually want to believe that about God. (They will assert that they HAVE to believe that about God, because the Bible says x, but I respond "The Bible also says y, which is the opposite of x, and there is no basis at all for your privileging x over y.")
Kosta50's expression was short and to the point. I would say: "We don't know. God is good. God is love. Therefore, assume the best." And I think that is as complete a theological statement as we can make about the status of the unbaptized infant from the revealed record. Everything past that is speculation, and reveals more about the personal character and temperament of the opiner than it tells us anything about God.
Now, it is possible that God could reveal the answer, through a saint or an apparition, if He chose to
With God everyting is possible, but this one is not probable. The faith delivered is divine Word. Our Lord didn't give us a defective or incomplete product. He told us what we have to know, not more and not less. Adding to the faith, diminishes God's work. If we today know more than those before us, that would make the Apostles and early Fathers real amateurs! It is rather the other way around. The Church may clarify and reword something that will not change the meaning in order to dispell heresies, but not add or substract from the Holy Tradition that our Lord deposited in its perfect form.
What we do know is that if we cling to the sacraments and keep our souls clean and keep turning to God, we will certainly go to Heaven
This is where you are definitely not thinking Orthodox! :-) There is no certainty to salvation, and there is no amount of "merit" that makes you worthy of salvation; we don't earn it; we can't buy it; we don't deserve it. You and are and all our human brethren are sinners. We are saved by God's mercy alone. Our works are expressions and statements of faith, not benefits that add up in a spiritual piggy bank.
The heart of Orthodoxy is in our relationship with God. It's all about pleasing God -- not out of obligation, but out of love. Not because we figured it out, but be cause we simply believe.
Congratulations! A perfectly condecending post, considering that you take no position yourself.
FYI, the discussion among the players though has taken a turn where first Baptism itself must be decided. There is no sense discussing Limbo if the necessity of Baptism cannot be agreed upon. And frankly, to me, this thread sounds like the tower of babel.
If we are to put any faith in the Bible or the Apostles at all, which you seem disinclined to do, taking a wait and see what happens attitude, then we can plainly see that Baptism is a necessity.
Infant Baptism seems to be a particular stumbling block, but I don't see it as any different than infant circumcision by the Jews.
In fact, the Catholic Church has never considered infant Baptism the end of the process, nor even first Communion at approximately the age of seven.
Confirmation is the final step of being 'sealed' in God, when the grown up infant can make his or her own declaration. Everything in the process conforms to biblical teaching, but God has covered the eyes, and closed the ears of those who can't see or hear it.
Roman Catholic Christians among other denominational Christians, e.g., Anglicans, Episcopalians, Lutherans, etc., believe in the efficacy and practice of baptizing infants.
Acts 2:38-39
Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit. For the promise is made to you and to your children and to all those far off, whomever the Lord our God will call."
There never has been nor is there any official Roman Catholic doctrinal position or teaching on the existence of or state of limbo.