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To: skellmeyer
I have no idea what you are talking about. The Enchiridion retains its full force. This calendar is built on it.

Sorry, I guess you haven't heard that Paul VI abolished the system of indulgences with his new "Apostolic Constitution On Indulgences" in 1967. Here is the document:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P6INDULG.HTM

"The following norms introduce appropriate variations in the discipline of indulgences, taking into consideration the proposals advanced by the episcopal conferences.

In drawing up the new norms these three considerations have been particularly observed: to establish a new measurement for partial indulgences; to reduce considerably the number of plenary indulgences; and, as for the so-called "real" and "local" indulgences, to reduce them and give them a simpler and more dignified formulation.

Regarding partial indulgences, with the abolishment of the former determination of days and years, a new norm or measurement has been established which takes into consideration the action itself of the faithful Christian who performs a work to which an indulgence is attached. It has also been considered fitting to reduce appropriately the number of plenary indulgences in order that the faithful may hold them in greater esteem and may in fact acquire them with the proper dispositions. For indeed the greater the proliferation (of indulgences) the less is the attention given them; what is offered in abundance is not greatly appreciated. [Great plan: Make indulgences more important by eliminating them -- yeah right. We can see how well it has worked.]

As regards the "real" and "local" indulgences, not only has their number been reduced considerably, but the designations themselves have been abolished to make it clearer that indulgences are attached to the actions performed by the faithful and not to objects or places which are but the occasion for the acquisition of the indulgences.

Indulgences attached to the use of religious objects which are not mentioned above cease three months after the date of publication of this constitution in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis.

We will that these statutes and prescriptions of ours be established now and remain in force for the future notwithstanding the constitutions and apostolic directives published by our predecessors or any other prescriptions even if they might be worthy of special mention or should otherwise require partial repeal.


5 posted on 10/09/2004 7:55:50 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
Indulgences have not been eliminated, Max. The Sacred Apostolic Penitentiary issued an Enchirdion Indulgentarium in 1968 - I've got a copy sitting right here.
In obedience to the will of the Sovereign Pontiff, as expressed both in the above-mentioned Apostolic Constitution and in further instructions from Him, this Sacred Penitentiary has seen to the careful preparation of a new Enchiridion of Indulgences ... Given at Rome, from the Sacred Apostolic Penitentiary, on the 29th day of June in the year 1968, the feast of the Holy Apostles, Peter and Paul.

6 posted on 10/09/2004 8:06:00 PM PDT by gbcdoj
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To: Maximilian
Sorry, I guess you haven't heard that Paul VI abolished the system of indulgences with his new "Apostolic Constitution On Indulgences" in 1967.

Say what???

The very document you posted under this statement proves otherwise. Plenary Indulgences still exist and operate as always. Partial Indulgences still exist, but the Sovereign Pontiff changed how the "measure" for "partial" is done by simplifying it.

Namely, rather than use the confusing method of saying "If you perform such and such under proper conditions and good intent, etc., this will give you a partial indulgence equivalent to a Bishop in the early Church taking 350 days off the time a penitent (guilty of earlier apostasy to avoid death in persecution) was barred from receiving the Eucharist as penance and proof of his/her commitment to a return to Christ, etc." The Church now just says "You get a partial indulgence".

Furthermore, the Pontiff, per his authority from Christ, updated the list of what those indulgences should be for this time in history. You should not be surprised at this, expecting that it will occur in the future as well, as it has in the past.

7 posted on 10/09/2004 8:54:12 PM PDT by TotusTuus
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To: Maximilian
Sorry, I guess you haven't heard that Paul VI abolished the system of indulgences with his new "Apostolic Constitution On Indulgences" in 1967.

Say what???

The very document you posted under this statement proves otherwise. Plenary Indulgences still exist and operate as always. Partial Indulgences still exist, but the Sovereign Pontiff changed how the "measure" for "partial" is done by simplifying it.

Namely, rather than use the confusing method of saying "If you perform such and such under proper conditions and good intent, etc., this will give you a partial indulgence equivalent to a Bishop in the early Church taking 350 days off the time a penitent (guilty of earlier apostasy to avoid death in persecution) was barred from receiving the Eucharist as penance and proof of his/her commitment to a return to Christ, etc." The Church now just says "You get a partial indulgence".

Furthermore, the Pontiff, per his authority from Christ, updated the list of what those indulgences should be for this time in history. You should not be surprised at this, expecting that it will occur in the future as well, as it has in the past.

8 posted on 10/09/2004 8:54:41 PM PDT by TotusTuus
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To: Maximilian
Oh for heaven's sake!

That decree does NOT abolish the practice of indulgences, it just abolishes a certain way of talking about them. Indulgences are no longer to have specific days assigned to them, because too many people were completely perverting the proper understanding of days. Most of the old classifications were also abolished - new classifications for discussing them were created so as to reduce the amount of misunderstanding about the teaching. All that decree does is abolish the old way of discussing indulgences and replace it with much more appropriate language. It doesn't abolish the works.

15 posted on 10/11/2004 8:17:54 AM PDT by skellmeyer
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