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To: dangus
For your information, the Spanish have been doing rather a good job of apostatizing on their own, with little or no help from outside, for some time now. As in most of Western Europe, Mass attendance is miserable and secularization is everywhere. If that wasn't enough, you should know that the Spanish birth rate is the lowest in the world. Spanish women were having an average of 1.07 children in 2000. That tells you all you need to know about their attitude to contraception, abortion, marriage and the family and how seriously they take their Roman Catholicism.

Given this, it is utterly unsurprising that they have elected the government that they have. It is simply a reflection of the prevailing mentality in the country.

As for Iraq, the Pope was absolutely right. He pleaded with us not to go. We turned a deaf ear. Now when things are not running according to plan, we turn around and blame him. He was right. As usual. The Catholic conditions for a just war were far from being satisfied with respect to Iraq. The Pope told us so and we told him to shove it.

Contrast this with Afghanistan. Afghanistan, through its proxy, al-Qaeda attacked the US. Intervention was justified. As a result, a country which the Soviet Union could not overcome was subdued in weeks, the terrorists were rooted out and the country has been stabilized. Weeks go by with little or no reports of death or trouble.

What are we bringing to Iraq? Christianity? No. The secular god of "democracy" instead and which the Iraqis probably do not even want. When we finally realize that there is not an American waiting to get out of the inside of every foreigner, we will be far better off.

In case I'm not being clear, let me summarize.

It is the fault of the Spanish that they are now in servitude to atheists and agnostics in government and it is our fault that we are now mired in a war with no foreseeable end and which may ultimately serve the cause of Islamic fundamentalists.

14 posted on 10/05/2004 6:22:56 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow
It is the fault of the Spanish that they are now in servitude to atheists and agnostics in government...

Did you read the article?

But in the Vatican, there is further cause for alarm. It is feared that what is happening in Spain will be reproduced in Rome and Italy. And the Church is uncertain how to face this.

15 posted on 10/05/2004 8:45:47 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: marshmallow
As for Iraq, the Pope was absolutely right. He pleaded with us not to go. We turned a deaf ear. Now when things are not running according to plan, we turn around and blame him. He was right. As usual. The Catholic conditions for a just war were far from being satisfied with respect to Iraq. The Pope told us so and we told him to shove it

The Pope was wrong on Iraq. He opposed the war because of the Chaldean Christians. Hussein murdered nearly a million Iraqis.

The Pope opposes war, on all fronts.

Had he thought this through, he might have considered that his opposition to the war, along with the French and Germans, allowed Hussein to hide behind JPII's skirts.

Had he remained silent, Hussein might have folded and avoided the war.

16 posted on 10/05/2004 8:53:16 PM PDT by sinkspur ("I exist in the fevered swamps of traditional arcana. "--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: marshmallow
Thank you, marshmallow. I am in complete agreement with what you have stated, although I doubt that I could have put the case as succinctly. Contrary to what has been stated in this article, Rome has been prescient in her analysis, as is her wont.

I was under the impression that opposition to this ill-conceived adventurism (a characterization similar to that of the senior Mr. Bush in the first war, when he warned against getting mired in a "nation-building" exercise) in Iraq was pretty much forbidden at FR, which is among the reasons why I promised myself some time ago that I would not post here again. However, I am willing to risk banning to let you know, publicly, that you are not alone.

I am not surprised, of course, to find the usual RadTrad suspects willing to swallow any anti-Papal or anti-curial propaganda they are predisposed to believe. Such rubbish is indispensable to their idea that their schismatic disposition is justified due to an (imaginary) "emergency".

There is very little new under the sun, and we've seen this foolishness before. It is nothing more than the "paranoid style" being played out in the public arena, unfortunately misleading those who cannot or will not do the necessary homework to unearth the flaws in their analysis. (This is especially the case for some of our well-intentioned, but mis-informed, young people.)

Take, the example of the Catholic Senator, Joe McCarthy. He was right: there were Communists in government and in Hollywood, and they were a threat to the stability of our nation. Had he kept his mental balance, he would be remembered for having performed an indispensable service to our country. Instead, he began to "find" a Communist in every pot and two Communists in every garage, and his name has become a byword for political insanity. It also had catastrophic effects on his personal life, and he died a broken, embittered, alcoholic.

St. Paul advises us to "test everything and retain what is good". Had both Sen. McCarthy and the current crop of paranoid "traditionalists" taken this admonition to heart they might have learned that self-governance which is necessary to keeping on the mentally and spiritually healthy side of the fence.

17 posted on 10/06/2004 12:09:41 AM PDT by neocon (So many loonies, so few bins ...)
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