Posted on 09/30/2004 4:42:17 PM PDT by Destro
Orthodox Church drawing converts from other branches of the faith
Saturday, September 25, 2004
By CHARITA M. GOSHAY Repository staff writer
AN ENDURING FAITH. The Very Rev. John Peck, pastor at Holy Assumption Orthodox Church in Canton, ministers to many converts of Orthodox Christianity like himself. Peck said Orthodoxy attracts people who are tired of congregational splits and denominational infighting.
CANTON -- The Very Rev. John Peck calls his faith a religion off the radar. The pastor of Holy Assumption Orthodox Church at 2027 18th St. NE for three years, Peck is overseeing a growing congregation that includes a sizable number of Christians who grew up in non-Orthodox denominations.
Peck said Christians are growing tired of churches that constantly change their doctrine or are splitting as a result of bitter divisions.
In contrast, Peck said, the essence of Orthodoxy has remained unchanged since it was born in the first century.
The Christian Church was a single entity until 1054, when it split into two parts, Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Protestantism was created as a result of a split from Catholicism in 1517.
I wasnt looking for Orthodoxy, said Kim Krajci, a member at Holy Assumption for nine years. It was the people that drew me in. My husband was Catholic and I was with the Friends. We werent worshipping together. I told him, Wherever you go, Ill go. A nun with whom he worked and a friend of his from college told him about this church. The people here are very loving. They manifest Christ. I find that irresistible.
Unlike many Orthodox parishes that have strong ethnic identities, Holy Assumption does not. Peck, whose first parish was in Fairbanks, Alaska, conducts the liturgy in English.
I dont know Latin. Apart from (Eskimo), English is the only language I know, he said with a smile.
A smiling Diane Wilkinson said that when she told her father she was converting to Orthodoxy, he asked her if she were becoming Greek.
Raised Catholic, Wilkinson said she joined the Charismatic movement, which led her to several Protestant churches in search of the truth.
It irked my husband that there were so many denominations, she said. He was looking for the one true church, if it existed. I was looking for a real worship experience. People are really struggling with what is worship. Theyre not looking for a make-it-up-as-you-go-along church. Everything you could want for your life is in Orthodoxy. You just have to take advantage of it.
Peck said that like himself, about 60 percent of his members are converts. Most recently, the church has produced the Very Rev. Stephen Frase of Tuslaw, a Protestant convert and Malone College graduate who recently became a priest.
Peck himself grew up a Lutheran, then joined the Episcopal Church with his wife. They left Protestantism 12 years ago. Peck has been a priest for seven years.
Though Orthodoxy remains somewhat of a mystery, Peck said theres less ignorance about the church these days.
In Orthodoxy, theres no arguing about basic Christian things that have been taught, he said. The tether of slicked-up Christianity has been turned loose in terms of theology and worship. We just dont go for that.
Peck said Orthodoxy requires commitment of its members. For example, the Orthodox are required to fast much more often than other Christians.
Its off the radar, Peck said of his faith. It takes a long time to complete the conversion process. Thats not popular.
This is a practice of faith that asks you to live a certain way, to act in a certain way, Krajci said. When I became a Christian, I was looking to live the Christian lifestyle. I even looked at several Christian communities. I didnt understand until I came to Orthodoxy that Id found it.
There are a lot of people who think the guys in black do it all. Liturgy means work of the people. You work to worship. Its not entertainment, she said.
After attending one of Akrons largest nondenominational churches for years, Kalle Obeng said she lost faith when the church changed its doctrine.
When a church changes its doctrine, theres a rift in that church, she said. People become disillusioned.
Obeng said the experience sent her on a quest to study early church history.
I visited different denominations and finally asked myself, What am I supposed to be looking for? she said.
Obeng said a friend invited her to Holy Assumption, and that during the second time she attended, she had a revelation of the Virgin Mary as the mother of God and of the church.
That was eight years ago.
It hasnt been an easy thing, but its been a great thing, she said.
Obeng, who is biracial, said she feels comfortable with Orthodoxy, which has deep roots in Africa.
Peck said Orthodoxy is appealing because it cuts across cultural boundaries though its doctrine remains unchanged.
To the Orthodox, Catholicism is the Protestant Church, he said. Its Orthodox-lite. I dont mean that in a bad way. The framework of Catholic services is Orthodox. The Roman Church doesnt do anything the way they did 100 years ago, let alone 500 or 1,000 years ago.
Continuity is a tremendous aspect most Protestants dont understand, Krajci said. Repeating the same things week after week is an anathema in a culture that wants change.
Theres freedom in accountability, Peck said. Our newest liturgy is 1,300 years old.
"We're the evil twin."
:) You said it, not me!
The most common Divine Liturgy celebrated is the St. John Chrystostom's version. He shortened the original from four or five hours to one hour and a half in the 4th century, retaining all the seential parts of the original.
I don't know much about St. Tihon's Liturgy but maybe MarMema can elaborate.
By contrast, the Roman Catholic Mass has been changed many times, and from what many are saying about the Vatican II, the latest version is but a pale resemblence of the Tridentine, which is but 500 years old.
"The Catholics are protestant since they protested the Orthodox not accepting the Frankish innovation of the Filioque clause to the Creed."
There is a great deal more to it than that, but in any event, the priest in the article said "Protestant", not "protestant". In either event coming from an Orthodox priest and directed toward Catholics, it is an unwarranted slap and bespeaks a mind clouded by baggage from a former faith.
"Can you provide proof that this Council was approved by the Pope? Even in the Orthodox model the Council has to be approved by all five patriarchs before it becomes ecumenical."
This is also a question in the Orthodox Churches. For this reason we speak of the One Church, with us as its continuation, as "The Church of the 7 Councils". An argument can be made, and indeed has been made, that the 8th Council was a very large and important Local Council. Personally, I don't know that I buy that, but it is an open question.
"It is a statement of opinion that one can argue (and it is juicy to argue) but not a basis for the hurtful words Kolokotronis used against the good father who used them in the article."
The priest's remarks were both ridiculous and ignorant, they are also not in accord with what his own hierarchs. Recently, the SCOBA bishops in consultation with a committee of the Catholics bishops issued a statement of the filique issue. In part it says, in a final section,that the Consultation makes eight recommendations to the members and bishops of the two churches. It recommends that they "enter into a new and earnest dialogue concerning the origin and person of the Holy Spirit." It also proposes that in the future both Catholics and Orthodox "refrain from labeling as heretical the traditions of the other side" on this subject, and that the theologians of both traditions make a clearer distinction between the divinity of the Spirit, and the manner of the Spirits origin, "which still awaits full and final ecumenical resolution." The text also urges theologians to distinguish, as far as possible, the theological issues concerning the origin of the Holy Spirit from ecclesiological issues, and suggests that attention be paid in the future to the status of councils of both our churches that took place after the seven ecumenical councils of the first millennium. And finally, in view of the fact that the Vatican has affirmed the "normative and irrevocable dogmatic value of the Creed of 381" in its original Greek version, the Consultation recommends that the Catholic Church use the same text (without the Filioque) "in making translations of that Creed for catechetical and liturgical use," and declare that the anathema pronounced by the Second Council of Lyons against those who deny that the Spirit proceeds eternally from the Father and the Son is no longer applicable.
This priest made his remarks after his own hierarch, a member of the SCOBA, endorsed this statement. To call Catholics "Protastants" is to call the heretics. That is innappropriate and the man should be disciplined. He is disobedient and if he preaches this garbage, especially to catechumens or new converts, he will be leading his parish astray.
I disagree with gbcdoj on his assertion that all five patriarchs had to agree for the councils to be valid. Usually the Pope would sin for the Church, but the Emperor was the law behind it. Councils sometimes passed canons that were not to pope's liking, and some refused to sign them. The Councils were passed regardless and usually another pope would, under sometimes very obvious pressure and threats, agree to with the Emperor and the Council and sign it.
Kolokotrinis, the non-Orthodox are not invited to take the Eucharist. If the priest doesn't recognize someone he will specifically ask if that person is Orthodox before giving the Eucharist.
I have also said in one of my previous posts that to the orthodox, the Catholics were the first Protestants. It's a relational not judgmental statement.
Vicomte, we are a hairline apart but that hairline is a narrow, yet deep, deep canyon.
I have seen other Orthodox assert that all the patriarchs needed to agree - I guess this isn't really a settled issue in the Orthodox Church. Why did the previous seven Councils seek confirmation from the Pope if it wasn't necessary? In the letter of the Council of Chalcedon to St. Leo I it is stated that the "force of all" rests upon his confirmation of the council.
Are you saying that it was the Emperor's consent that made a council Ecumenical?
That is this article's error in mis-presenting the fact that way - not the Father's. Clearly the author is befuddled - Americans will be more confused as Orthodoxy moves on and converts more and more.
I say it as well and with a capital P and agree 100% with it's use.
apples and oranges - the Pope needs to be at an ecumenical council just like the Pope of Alexandria, etc needs to be, but the Roman Pope does not have a veto vote to council decisions. The Council decisions are binding to the attending Pope even if he has reservations about them.
kosta: "Vicomte, we are a hairline apart but that hairline is a narrow, yet deep, deep canyon."
Yes, that is true.
And because a hairline is so narrow, however deep, the age is past when we should toss rocks at each other across it.
(The age never should have arisen in the first place...but "Woe unto the world because of offenses, for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe unto the man by whom the offense cometh.")
If we should suppose that the Great Schism was just such an offense that, in the Providence of God, must needs come, and that the division it has left between us is a deep and abiding scar, the wound inflicted by the past on us is real. But we, alive in the hear and now, need not commit our own offenses of making the wounds worse. Catholics are not Protestants. We are a sacramental church based on ancient Tradition, in the Apostolic Succession going all the way back to Jesus, just like the Orthodox. Our differences are real, but they are not the difference between Protestants and Catholics. Those differences are real, but they are of a different order. It is possible to imagine a reconciliation between Orthodoxy and Catholicism, with each coming into full communion with the other without the death of either Church. It is not possible to imagine, say, the Southern Baptist Convention coming into full communion with the Patriarch of Constantinople, without a complete change in the very nature of Southern Baptism itself.
The councils were Ecumenical because they involved the bishops from the Greek and Latin side, and because the Pope's legates were present.
Good point. Again, I say that referirng to "Protestants" is figurative and symbolic (i.e. protesting), and not realistic. We need not throw stones at each other. We need not call each other heretic, or by any other label. I agree fully.
Abortion is the murder of the unborn, that's how. I would have thought you could figure that one out for yourself. I stand corrected.
Actually, it has more to do with the fact that contraceptive methods that were not abortiofacient came into common use.
Also, many Roman Catholics labor under the misconception that the Orthodox Church approves of the use of contraceptives for any reason whatever, this is patently untrue. Permission to use contraception can be given but it still viewed as a moral failing.
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