Posted on 09/30/2004 4:42:17 PM PDT by Destro
Orthodox Church drawing converts from other branches of the faith
Saturday, September 25, 2004
By CHARITA M. GOSHAY Repository staff writer
AN ENDURING FAITH. The Very Rev. John Peck, pastor at Holy Assumption Orthodox Church in Canton, ministers to many converts of Orthodox Christianity like himself. Peck said Orthodoxy attracts people who are tired of congregational splits and denominational infighting.
CANTON -- The Very Rev. John Peck calls his faith “a religion off the radar.” The pastor of Holy Assumption Orthodox Church at 2027 18th St. NE for three years, Peck is overseeing a growing congregation that includes a sizable number of Christians who grew up in non-Orthodox denominations.
Peck said Christians are growing tired of churches that constantly change their doctrine or are splitting as a result of bitter divisions.
In contrast, Peck said, the essence of Orthodoxy has remained unchanged since it was born in the first century.
The Christian Church was a single entity until 1054, when it split into two parts, Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Protestantism was created as a result of a split from Catholicism in 1517.
“I wasn’t looking for Orthodoxy,” said Kim Krajci, a member at Holy Assumption for nine years. “It was the people that drew me in. My husband was Catholic and I was with the Friends. We weren’t worshipping together. I told him, ‘Wherever you go, I’ll go.’ A nun with whom he worked and a friend of his from college told him about this church. The people here are very loving. They manifest Christ. I find that irresistible.”
Unlike many Orthodox parishes that have strong ethnic identities, Holy Assumption does not. Peck, whose first parish was in Fairbanks, Alaska, conducts the liturgy in English.
“I don’t know Latin. Apart from (Eskimo), English is the only language I know,” he said with a smile.
A smiling Diane Wilkinson said that when she told her father she was converting to Orthodoxy, he asked her if she were becoming Greek.
Raised Catholic, Wilkinson said she joined the Charismatic movement, which led her to several Protestant churches in search of the truth.
“It irked my husband that there were so many denominations,” she said. “He was looking for the one true church, if it existed. I was looking for a real worship experience. People are really struggling with what is worship. They’re not looking for a make-it-up-as-you-go-along church. Everything you could want for your life is in Orthodoxy. You just have to take advantage of it.”
Peck said that like himself, about 60 percent of his members are converts. Most recently, the church has produced the Very Rev. Stephen Frase of Tuslaw, a Protestant convert and Malone College graduate who recently became a priest.
Peck himself grew up a Lutheran, then joined the Episcopal Church with his wife. They left Protestantism 12 years ago. Peck has been a priest for seven years.
Though Orthodoxy remains somewhat of a mystery, Peck said there’s less ignorance about the church these days.
“In Orthodoxy, there’s no arguing about basic Christian things that have been taught,” he said. “The tether of slicked-up Christianity has been turned loose in terms of theology and worship. We just don’t go for that.”
Peck said Orthodoxy requires commitment of its members. For example, the Orthodox are required to fast much more often than other Christians.
“It’s off the radar,” Peck said of his faith. “It takes a long time to complete the conversion process. That’s not popular.”
“This is a practice of faith that asks you to live a certain way, to act in a certain way,” Krajci said. “When I became a Christian, I was looking to live the Christian lifestyle. I even looked at several Christian communities. I didn’t understand until I came to Orthodoxy that I’d found it.
“There are a lot of people who think the guys in black do it all. ‘Liturgy’ means ‘work of the people.’ You work to worship. It’s not entertainment,” she said.
After attending one of Akron’s largest nondenominational churches for years, Kalle Obeng said she lost faith when the church changed its doctrine.
“When a church changes its doctrine, there’s a rift in that church,” she said. “People become disillusioned.”
Obeng said the experience sent her on a quest to study early church history.
“I visited different denominations and finally asked myself, ‘What am I supposed to be looking for?’ ” she said.
Obeng said a friend invited her to Holy Assumption, and that during the second time she attended, she had a revelation of the Virgin Mary as the mother of God and of the church.
That was eight years ago.
“It hasn’t been an easy thing, but it’s been a great thing,” she said.
Obeng, who is biracial, said she feels comfortable with Orthodoxy, which has deep roots in Africa.
Peck said Orthodoxy is appealing because it cuts across cultural boundaries though its doctrine remains unchanged.
“To the Orthodox, Catholicism is the Protestant Church,” he said. “It’s Orthodox-lite. I don’t mean that in a bad way. The framework of Catholic services is Orthodox. The Roman Church doesn’t do anything the way they did 100 years ago, let alone 500 or 1,000 years ago.”
“Continuity is a tremendous aspect most Protestants don’t understand,” Krajci said. “Repeating the same things week after week is an anathema in a culture that wants change.”
“There’s freedom in accountability,” Peck said. “Our newest liturgy is 1,300 years old.”
In this Letter which was read at the second session of the Photian Council of Constantinople of 879/80 and is included in the second Act of the Minutes, Pope John VIII writes:
Ac primum quidem a nobis suscipi Photium praetantissimum ac reverentissimum Dei Pontificem et Patriarcham, in fratrem nostrum et comministrum, eundemque communionis cum sancta Romana ecclesia participem, consortem, et haeredem... Suscipite virum sine aliqua exrusatione. Nemo praetexat eas quae contra ipsum factae sunt innjustas synodos. Nemo, ut plerisque videtur imperitis ac rudibis, decessorum nostrorum beatorum Pontificum, Nicolai inquam, et Hadriani, decreta culpet... Finita sunt enim omnia, repudiata omnia, quae adversus cum gesta sunt, infirma irritaquae reddita...
In a letter to Photius, Pope John VIII writes:
In Commonitorium or Mandatum ch. 10, Pope John VIII writes :
The minutes add:
Caput 10. Volumus coram praesente synodo pomulgari ut synodus quae facta est contra praedictum patriarcham Photium sub Hadriano sanctissimo Papa in urbe Roma et Constantinopoli ex nunc sit rejecta, irrita, et sine robore; neque connumeretur cum altera sancta synodo. Sancta Synodus respondit: Nos rebus ispsis condemnavimus et abjecimus et anathematizavimus dictam a vobis synodum, uniti Photio sanctissimo nostro Patriarchae: et eos qui non rejiciunt scripta dictave nostra cum in hac dicta a vobis synodo, anathematizamus.
All this because I explained that the Orthodox church has stayed "unchanged" (for lack of a batter word) since that council.
Love as in sex? In no comment above is their the mention of joy through sexual relations with your wife.
More rationalizations -- if love can be "understood" as sex then it's okay to have sex when shooting blanks for sheer sensation of "love." That interpretation sounds a little Gnostic to me.
It takes special mind, indeed, to read into things as one wishes and believe that it is what the hidden meaning is. That is rationalization. Stretching the meaning.
No gbcdoj, there is nothing in your quote that says love is pure sex, or that one can engage in sex if there is no purpose in it (i.e. procreation). And last I heard of the Catholic doctrine, sex has one and unmistakable function and purpose -- procreation.
It irkes them to hear that, Destro. You touched a raw nerve. As you said, if we could walk into an Orthodox Church 1,300 years back, we would see the same service, hear the same teaching, cross the same way.
Many Catholics, however, wish, they could say the same thing, but they don't hate us for it. They are simply afraid to cross to Orthodoxy (although technically they are not abadoning the Catholic Church -- we still recognize the Pope as the primate of honor in the Church, although we cannot be in communion with him until our theologies are indistinguishable) and they are not considered "converts" by the Orthodox Church but simply Chrismated.
There is a small and very bitter group of disenchanted Catholics who hate anything Orthodox, and they are obvious on this forum and elsewhere. They wish they would get back their Tridentine Mass, which is but 500 years old, as probably even the Pope would not know how to celebrate anything older than that. The period after the Council of Trent was probably the hayday of Catholicism and that's why they cling on to it. Their memory of tradition is only a few hundred years old and no one even remembers what was Mass was celebrated in Florence in the 13th century or earlier. It's almost as if the Catholic Church was established at Trent and not at the Pentecost. Their marker as anything "truly" Catholic (in the seose of Roman Catholic) is the Trent. No one even speaks of anything before that.
So, when faced with the serenity of the unchanging and stable Orthodoxy, which they compare to some of the chaotic and sometimes disrespectful situations in the Catholic Church, they are not happy when we rub our stability and love for Orthodox way of life in their faces even if we don't intend to.
So, the only thing I feel for such minority is deep pain and sorrow at their anger and venomous feelings. It is our duty as Orthodox Christians to treat them with compassion and pray that they come to feel better soon.
Also, the second quote claims that the 869 Synod was ejected from the Pontifical archives - yet the acts and canons of this council were rediscovered in the eleventh century in the Lateran archives.
Tell that to the Antiochian Orthodox, who base their Liturgy of St. Tikhon on a 1928 Protestant prayer book.
They wish they would get back their Tridentine Mass, which is but 500 years old
Hence, We decided to entrust this work to learned men of our selection. They very carefully collated all their work with the ancient codices in Our Vatican Library and with reliable, preserved or emended codices from elsewhere. Besides this, these men consulted the works of ancient and approved authors concerning the same sacred rites; and thus they have restored the Missal itself to the original form and rite of the holy Fathers. (St. Pius V, "Quo Primum")
" And last I heard of the Catholic doctrine, sex has one and unmistakable function and purpose -- procreation."
Imagine trying to sell this one to Greeks!
Nor are those considered as acting against nature who in the married state use their right in the proper manner although on account of natural reasons either of time or of certain defects, new life cannot be brought forth. For in matrimony as well as in the use of the matrimonial rights there are also secondary ends, such as mutual aid, the cultivating of mutual love, and the quieting of concupiscence which husband and wife are not forbidden to consider so long as they are subordinated to the primary end and so long as the intrinsic nature of the act is preserved. (Pius XI, Casti Connubii §59)
i.e. to produce children. The English is a little purplish but I did well on my SATs.
"Tell that to the Antiochian Orthodox, who base their Liturgy of St. Tikhon on a 1928 Protestant prayer book."
St. Tikhon wrote that Liturgy for the very specific purpose of ministering to Orthodox, non-ethnic converts here in America. Since 1958, or so, it has been used by the Western Rite Vicariate of the Antiochian Archdiocese of North America, a very small, almost totally convert subdivision of the Archdiocese. It is NOT the regular Liturgy of the AANA, or any other Orthodox jurisdiction in this country or anywhere else that I am aware of and from what I understand, its use is shrinking. It is similar to the Sarum and other ancient British liturgies of the pre-schism Church, but may owe more to very early Anglican Liturgies. But for the fact that it was writen by a saint of the Church, I suspect it would have died out by now. Unfortunately, it continues to appeal to certain convert minds.
I'm Antiochian Orthodox and I've only seen the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom and the Liturgy of St. Basil (my poor feet!). If there's another liturgy, it's not getting any airtime around here, that I can say for sure. Actually, I have heard rumors of an optional 'western' liturgy that hardly anybody uses. Is that it?
nebermind :P
Might be. Here is the article that I linked to in my first post on this thread:
http://www.westernorthodox.com/stmark/lion/lion2001-08
It lists two liturgies: the "Liturgy of St. Gregory" and the "Liturgy of St. Tikhon". The Liturgy of St. Gregory is apparently simply the traditional Roman Mass with a few minor changes, whereas the Liturgy of St. Tikhon is based on the Prayer Book. The site claims both of these are approved for the Antiochian Orthodox Church. The page is quite interesting - it has some graphs of the descent of the two liturgies from their predecessors.
Frgeries are always a possibility, as you mention, not that there were strong checks and balances in place. It is my understanding that the Vatican keeps volumes of material in unopened arechives. Why is that?
i.e. to produce children. The English is a little purplish but I did well on my SATs
BINGO!
Yeah, I didn't even have to consult a Church document to know that sex is allowed to be pleasurable. I don't know if kosta50 is just trying to win some points in the debate here or if he or the Orthodox Church have some issue with sex being pleasurable in addition to procreative. I do not mean this to be insulting, I just don't know how else to put it.
It irkes them to hear that, Destro. You touched a raw nerve. As you said, if we could walk into an Orthodox Church 1,300 years back, we would see the same service, hear the same teaching, cross the same way.
Many Catholics, however, wish, they could say the same thing, but they don't hate us for it. They are simply afraid to cross to Orthodoxy (although technically they are not abadoning the Catholic Church -- we still recognize the Pope as the primate of honor in the Church, although we cannot be in communion with him until our theologies are indistinguishable) and they are not considered "converts" by the Orthodox Church but simply Chrismated.
There is a small and very bitter group of disenchanted Catholics who hate anything Orthodox, and they are obvious on this forum and elsewhere. They wish they would get back their Tridentine Mass, which is but 500 years old, as probably even the Pope would not know how to celebrate anything older than that. The period after the Council of Trent was probably the hayday of Catholicism and that's why they cling on to it. Their memory of tradition is only a few hundred years old and no one even remembers what was Mass was celebrated in Florence in the 13th century or earlier. It's almost as if the Catholic Church was established at Trent and not at the Pentecost. Their marker as anything "truly" Catholic (in the seose of Roman Catholic) is the Trent. No one even speaks of anything before that.
So, when faced with the serenity of the unchanging and stable Orthodoxy, which they compare to some of the chaotic and sometimes disrespectful situations in the Catholic Church, they are not happy when we rub our stability and love for Orthodox way of life in their faces even if we don't intend to.
So, the only thing I feel for such minority is deep pain and sorrow at their anger and venomous feelings. It is our duty as Orthodox Christians to treat them with compassion and pray that they come to feel better soon.
>>>>The only thing I have to say to you after reading such insulting drivel is: Grow up.
"Nothing I've seen in the missalettes, and I do read them in Church, indicates that Catholics are allowed to take Communion in an Orthodox Church."
Nor have I. I expect it may be an assumption they are making based on the wording saying we are allowed to in your church. Certainly a lot of RCs do present themselves for communion in our parish.
"If any Catholic is going to an Orthodox Church and getting pissy because they cannot have Communion, that's their issue."
Unfortunately, they try to make it our issue.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.