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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
In fact, Trent was indeed teaching that Good Works increase Justification for the attainment of Salvation itself, not just "Rewards in Heaven":

Nope his is untrue from the text of Trent, and the Teachings of the Church.

Salvation is by the Mercy of God. After that works on Earth build your faith on Earth, but through Baptism we are one of the inheritors of Heaven. Trent shows as much, but in isolation, Trent isn't as powerful. I attempted to show your position is incorrect in regards to Catholic teaching by using the Catechism, but you have a fixation on Trent.

In the end -- you've failed to show that I have misinterpreted Trent in any way; You have in turn mis-stated the teaching of Trent yourself; and the Vatican evidence we have cited demonstrates that I have correctly characterized the teaching of Trent all along, and you have not.

This is cute. No not at all, and my point was explaining Catholic doctrine, not refuting you. The world doesn't revolve around you. You couldn't understand Trent without an understanding of Catholicism, and your prejudice blinds you to the meaning of the documents of Trent.

They boil down to saying that the Mercy of God is a gift that enables us to do good works, and by those works, we can help ourselves and others.
94 posted on 10/01/2004 4:12:27 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Dominick; kosta50; MarMema; redgolum
In fact, Trent was indeed teaching that Good Works increase Justification for the attainment of Salvation itself, not just "Rewards in Heaven": Nope his is untrue from the text of Trent, and the Teachings of the Church.

You're wrong. Yet again. Trent teaches that Good Works increase our Justification before God for the purpose of attaining Salvation itself:

Your attempt to downplay and explain away the Anathemas of Trent by claiming that Trent was only teaching that Good Works attend to "Rewards in Heaven" has been refuted by the Vatican itself:

And here's the Acid Test -- let's hold you to the Teachings of your own church.

Deny this, and you deny the teachings of the Vatican itself.
Affirm this, and you prove what I have said all along.

Salvation is by the Mercy of God. After that works on Earth build your faith on Earth, but through Baptism we are one of the inheritors of Heaven. Trent shows as much, but in isolation, Trent isn't as powerful. I attempted to show your position is incorrect in regards to Catholic teaching by using the Catechism, but you have a fixation on Trent.

A "fixation of Trent"?

Your church only anathematized everyone who wasn't Roman Catholic therein, and considered Trent so important she went 300 years without holding another Council thereafter.

Try to dodge and downplay Trent all you want -- you're stuck with it.

This is cute. No not at all, and my point was explaining Catholic doctrine, not refuting you. The world doesn't revolve around you. You couldn't understand Trent without an understanding of Catholicism, and your prejudice blinds you to the meaning of the documents of Trent.

Raw Bulverism on your part.

You don't like being held to the exact wording of Trent, and the pronouncements of the Vatican, so you're attempting to "shoot the messenger".

Such is the debate tactic of a hack, and it won't fly.

They boil down to saying that the Mercy of God is a gift that enables us to do good works, and by those works, we can help ourselves and others.

No, they don't.

They boil down to saying that "Good Works are a cause of the increase of Justification" and "eternal life is the reward given by God for good works and merits". Granted, the Roman Catholic church reserves that it is "all of Grace" in the sense that it is only by the grace of God that we have the ability to perform Good Works. Fine and Dandy.

But, as I said before -- Stipulating in advance that the ability to perform Good Works is granted by the grace of God, DO YOU AFFIRM, OR DENY, that "eternal life is the reward given by God for good works and merits"?

Deny this, and you deny the teachings of the Vatican itself.

Affirm this, and you prove what I have said all along.

95 posted on 10/01/2004 5:26:27 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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