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To: Tantumergo
"Sorry to be a misery-guts here but, if I was an E.O., I would have to ask myself 'What on earth would we gain by being in communion with Rome again?'"

*snip*

"If I were E.O. I would probably tell the Pope to come back in a couple of hundred years, and we'd think about talking then."

Quite perceptive.

The fundamental thing that needs to be overcome is the fact that there are profound differences in the approach to the spiritual life between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism. (And yes, picky dogmatic things like the filioque have had profound implications in the development of the spiritual life in the West, just as St. Photius and others predicted that they would.) There are extensive shared formulations of dogmatic faith, liturgical similarities that can be explored, etc..., but they pale before the great chasm of fundamental differences.

I remember when looking at both Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy from the outside many years ago, I didn't see particularly profound differences, either. But they are there, and they have nothing to do with nationalism, historical accident, Muslim domination, liturgical "rite", or the like.

The path to the Roman Catholic Church being able to return to communion with the Orthodox Church is only to be found one place: through the Roman Catholic Church critically examining its own spiritual path over the past 1000-plus years -- examining how things got to where they are today, with the crises of pederasty, dwindling vocations, liturgical chaos, and jettisoning of traditional beliefs. That the Roman Catholic Church is very ill is obvious to anyone who looks at it honestly, and all of us who look on the current state of affairs are grieved by it. What should be most important to devout Roman Catholics should not be "how can we unify with Church X," but rather, "how can we get healthy again?"

Union with Rome as she currently stands will not bring health to Rome, it will rather simply bring sickness to Orthodoxy. All of the answers to the current crisis in the Roman Catholic Church are there in the West's own ancient spiritual traditions from the time well before the Schism. Roman Catholics can benefit from contact with Orthodoxy, but not at the levels of "official negotiations" or ecumenical gatherings, which are mere worldly instruments of political maneuvering and academic gamesmanship. Orthodox who participate in these either don't take them seriously... and if they do, they in turn aren't taken seriously by the faithful Orthodox.

What Roman Catholics can benefit from (and what could eventually lead to a true union reflecting complete unity of faith and spiritual approach) are three things:

1. Reading the writings of and talking to Orthodox Christians who have explored deeply their Western Orthodox roots from the time before the Schism -- spiritual and liturgical.

2. Attending services at liturgically traditional and vibrant Orthodox parishes to see the role that liturgy plays in shaping our lives, and how this differs even from traditionalist Roman Catholic liturgical approaches (this is not to be found so much in the Divine Liturgy as it is in Vespers, Matins, and the "minor" services of the cycle.)

3. Read practical, traditional Orthodox spiritual writings, and discuss them with someone who actively pursues the spiritual life.

Finally, do all of the above not with the goal of "finding common ground," "looking for ways to unite," or heaven forbid to argue about it. Avoid Orthodox who want to argue about theology. Seek out those who understand their faith deeply, who practice it, and who are willing to tell you about it simply, as best they can.

Union will only be genuine and blessed by God if it is a true union in the fullness of the faith. This cannot be achieved by wishing it to be so, and cannot be achieved by negotiations, consultations, "agreed statements," political maneuvering, bribery, extortion, and the like.

Roman Catholics who genuinely want union for the right reasons need to understand just why the idea of union is so unthinkable to most devout, practicing Orthodox Christians. Not unthinkable in the sense that the concept is repugnant (far from it), but unthinkable in the sense that we see the profound changes that would need to happen in Roman Catholicism before genuine and full agreement in the faith could exist between us. And in our lifetimes, the Roman Catholic Church has drifted farther away from Orthodoxy, not drawn closer to it. On the other hand, the potential for genuine union based on agreement in the faith and spiritual approach between Roman Catholicism and Lutheranism and Anglicanism has never been closer.

75 posted on 09/26/2004 10:29:10 PM PDT by Agrarian
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To: Agrarian

Your posts to this thread are excellent.


83 posted on 09/27/2004 2:53:54 AM PDT by AlbionGirl ("Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further; and here shall thy proud waves be stayed.")
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