[Kolokotronis]

< I pray that no modernist ever gets his hands on the beautiful prayers of your liturgy.>

Modernists?!!! Us????? I don't think so. I've said this before, but, its great worshipping Almighty God the same way my family did 1700 years ago.

[monkfan]

Modernists?!!! Us????? I don't think so.

I brought a cushion to Kneeling Vespers once. Does that count?

[kosta50]

So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit, but rather it extended over the whole of her life. She must have been in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence to have been called "full of grace."

This is one of those leaps of logic that leads nowhere. The "extraction" the angel's words at that moment to the very moment Mary was conceived simply doesn't follow.

While the Orthodox and the Catholic will strongly agree on the issue of Theotokos's ever-virginity, holiness and importance, the agreement breaks down on philosophical rationalizations of just "how" or "how it must have" happened (another example is the same belief in the Eucharistic Real Presence but completely divergent views on "how" it happens).

This is not a new topic and all the rehashing did nothing to bring us closer on this issue. This comes from the fact that we Orthodox do not see, nor have we ever seen, the "original sin" in the Catholic Augustinian eyes and that is the thorn that eventually split the Church. Apparently it is still doing a great job at keeping us apart.

If our very definition of the "original sin" differs, our differences are evident at the very beginning of the Bible and only become more profound.