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To: sinkspur

"it's about deafeating fellow Catholics."

No, it's about defeating those who seek to lead Catholics astray.


24 posted on 09/11/2004 8:51:05 AM PDT by dsc
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To: dsc
No, it's about defeating those who seek to lead Catholics astray.

Like Pope John Paul II and 2500 bishops in every country of the world?

When do you plan to follow Somerville over the cliff? Surely there's an integrist chapel in Nippon-land somewhere.

25 posted on 09/11/2004 8:56:48 AM PDT by sinkspur ("Can someone tell me where to find an ordained archpriest?"--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: dsc; Pio; pascendi; Robert Drobot; ELS; Canticle_of_Deborah; pro Athanasius; Viva Christo Rey; ...

The basic question is this: is the institutional structure of the Roman Catholic Church currently in a state of generalised apostacy, which is gradually progressing towards a specific, madated, and open condition of apostacy?

Or is this all a vain inagining, and should we all, like the Teletubbies, be cavorting in a field full of bunny rabbits, in gleefull bliss that "all is well"?

This is the basic question. And from it derive other pertinant questions: is the Novus Ordo Missae a valid mass at face value? Will its performance - as written - always result in a valid mass? Or is it valid only if said with very special care? Can the faithful be sure they are actually receiving the true sacrament - or are they unwittlingly participating in material idolatry of bread & wine? I am posing problems which would cross a rabbi's eyes!

These are very tough questions. And they in turn raise a thousand more.

Is JPII actually the Pope? Was he validly elected? or - if validly elected, has he since 1978, done things which would invalidate his papacy? Or, if so, has he realized the error of his ways, and repented in his heart of whatever wrong he did, and "restored" himself?

I raise those questions about JPII - not so much because they reflect my opinion (I believe him to be the Pope), but because these issues have been raised by others.

And what of the next pope? Will he be a legitimate suceessor to Peter? Will his election be invalid on the face of it......will he confirm as dogma that which is heresy, and formally cause the insitutional church to apostacize?

When I refer to the "insitutional church" I refer to the visible administrative infrastructure. Rememeber, Christ did not create the rank of Cardinal priest - men did. Christ insituted the priesthood, and the concept of a Bishop, as shepherd of the people, and of a cheif Bishop - the Pope - to lead them all in his name and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Christ's promise to His church - that it will survive, against all odds to the end of time is very real. But it does not necessarliy apply to the man-made insitutional organization.

The One, True, Holy,Roman,Catholic, and Apostolic Church does not need buildings, computers, real estate holdings, or even money to survive. It needs none of that. Not one cent. It needs only the willing hearts and souls of those who would crucify themselves to the world for Christ. Into those hearts comes an outpouring of the Holy Spirits gifts of wisdom and spiritual strength. That is all it needs to survive. That is all it ever needed, and all it was promised in Judea, 2000 years ago by the God made man, Jesus Christ - who owned nothing but he clothes on his back, yet had power and spiritual authority infinately. He shared that authority with Peter.

"Take, and receive, O Lord, my liberty. Take from me my will, my mind, my memory.....only Thy grace and love on my bestow, and I am rich enough to ask for nothing more".

For their sins, God allowed the Jews to wander for 40 years in the desert: "until this perverse generation be consumed".

Warts & all, JPII is "the last Pope of these Catholic times". He is the Pope whom Christ has willed for this day.
Like his Master, he suffer greatly as he climbs Calvary.

Men did not want Christ's church, and have sinned greatly - church men, laity, and non-believers alike. Christ does not stay where he is honored not. So he is allowing "this perverse generation" to comsume itself. We are getting exactly what we deserve. Nothing.

Down we will go, as a corporate body. Into corruption, filth - covered with it. A headless, splintered thing. Its death agony will be brutal to watch - and we are seeing it now. The Jews wandered in the desert for 40 years. It has been nearly 40 years since the end of Vatican II.

Have we not been wandereing? Confused? Beset by a great confusion of the mind and spirit? This is not the first time in salvation history that God has allowed this on man.

Very soon there will come a time when men shall ask: where is the church? It will not be visable; it will be entombed, as was its Master. It will live on, for a time, in the catacombs, as it were. It may be a long or short period - that is up to God. But it will be resurrected like its Master, and be raised up, more glorious then ever.

This is not my idea. It is in scripture. In the writing so the saints & the Doctors of the church. It is contained in prophecies which reinforce scripture. And has been promised by Mary.

Nobody has to believe any of this. But neither would anybody living in 1960 believe them if I time-travelled back them and described the church of 2004. The church of 1960 is not the church of 2004. They are not he same - there is no comparison.

So, Fr. Sommerville was converted, by the grace of the "bon Dieu", and restored to the faith of his fathers. He has come to understand all that I have stated above. He has made his choice. He has seen the error of his past ways, and amends for them.

Two roads diverge in the woods: one is pretty, tree lined, the road laden with flowers. All is beautiful, and rich fresh fruits hang from the trees, plentiful fields of grain are to be had, and fish to be eaten.

The other road is dark, rough, strewn with rocks, and shards of glass, on either side of the road is nothing but barreness. There is nothing to eat or refresh oneself with - the water is poisonous. dangerous animals lurk in the shadows.

At the end of the first road - after it takes an unforseen turn, is a lake of unquenchable fire. At the end of the second road is the heavenly Jerusalem.

Fr, Sommerville has chosen the second road - and he is barefoot.


73 posted on 09/11/2004 4:51:29 PM PDT by thor76 (Vade retro, Draco! Crux sacra sit mihi lux!)
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