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To: Pyro7480; sinkspur; Grey Ghost II
Check out the conversion stories posted by the "reformed." You almost used their words verbatim.

He's right, though. Consider these words of a Doctor of the Church:

Wherefore he that would now enquire of God, or seek any vision or revelation, would not only be acting foolishly, but would be committing an offence against God, by setting his eyes altogether upon Christ, and seeking no new thing or aught beside. And God might answer him after this manner, saying: If I have spoken all things to thee in My Word, Which is My Son, and I have no other word, what answer can I now make to thee, or what can I reveal to thee which is greater than this? Set thine eyes on Him alone, for in Him I have spoken and revealed to thee all things, and in Him thou shalt find yet more than that which thou askest and desirest. For thou askest locutions and revelations, which are the part; but if thou set thine eyes upon Him, thou shalt find the whole; for He is My complete locution and answer, and He is all My vision and all My revelation; so that I have spoken to thee, answered thee, declared to thee and revealed to thee, in giving Him to thee as thy brother, companion and master, as ransom and prize. For since that day when I descended upon Him with My Spirit on Mount Tabor, saying: Hic est filius meus dilectus, in quo mihi bene complacui, ipsum audite [St. Matthew xvii, 5.] (which is to say: This is My beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased; hear ye Him), I have left off all these manners of teaching and answering, and I have entrusted this to Him. Hear Him; for I have no more faith to reveal, neither have I any more things to declare. For, if I spake aforetime, it was to promise Christ; and, if they enquired of Me, their enquiries were directed to petitions for Christ and expectancy concerning Him, in Whom they should find every good thing (as is now set forth in all the teaching of the Evangelists and the Apostles); but now, any who would enquire of Me after that manner, and desire Me to speak to him or reveal aught to him, would in a sense be asking Me for Christ again, and asking Me for more faith, and be lacking in faith, which has already been given in Christ; and therefore he would be committing a great offence against My beloved Son, for not only would he be lacking in faith, but he would be obliging Him again first of all to become incarnate and pass through life and death. Thou shalt find naught to ask Me, or to desire of Me, whether revelations or visions; consider this well, for thou shalt find that all has been done for thee and all has been given to thee -- yea, and much more also -- in Him. (St. John of the Cross, Ascent of Mt. Carmel, II, 22)

52 posted on 08/21/2004 9:00:57 PM PDT by gbcdoj
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To: gbcdoj; Hermann the Cherusker
You are a goldmine of substantiation.

You and Hermann could provide a rolling Church history, replete with documentation.

That's why I love this place.

54 posted on 08/21/2004 9:08:15 PM PDT by sinkspur ("What's the point in being Pope if you can't wear a tiara"?--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: gbcdoj; sinkspur
Doesn't work, gbcdoj. It's clearly speaking of desiring visions and so forth.

A past event approved by the Church does not equate to the desiring of visions and apparitions.

Nice try, though. Heck, why didn't you just use True Devotion to Mary by St. Louis DeMonfort? He says the same thing: don't desire apparitions and visions and the like.

Every traditional Catholic knows this. Your supposed expose is mere a platitude from their perspective.
55 posted on 08/21/2004 9:14:31 PM PDT by pascendi (Quicumque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est, ut teneat catholicam fidem)
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