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To: seamole
So don't worry about the priest's heart

As an observer to this discussion , I am wondering how you can disregard the content or intent of a mans heart? Over and over the bible says that God reads and judges the heart, I do not see any biblical exceptions to that .

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.” Mark 7:21-23

Prov 15:8
8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Prov 15:29 The LORD is far from the wicked: but he heareth the prayer of the righteous. (KJV)

Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer [shall be] abomination

Jeremiah 7:16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

Jeremiah 11:14 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear [them] in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.

Lamentations 3:8
Also when I cry and shout, he shutteth out my prayer.

Lamentations 3:44 Thou hast covered thyself with a cloud, that [our] prayer should not pass through.

Psa 66:18If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear [me]:

Mic 3:4   Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but he will not hear them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings.

Jhn 9:31 
  Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Proverbs 28:9;
"One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination.

ISAIAH 59:2-
"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you, that He will not hear

    1Pe 3:12  
For the eyes of the Lord [are] over the righteous, and his ears [are open] unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord [is] against them that do evil.

It seems to me that if you rely on the words alone , then any non priest saying the words would produce a "valid" communion. It makes the words and not God the primary actor . It sounds like superstition

75 posted on 08/16/2004 9:23:11 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
It makes the words and not God the primary actor.

Where the sacraments are concerned, it is the other way around. Indeed, it is through the sacraments that Christ Himself chooses to give His Grace to us. So, for example, if a Priest, that is one who has received ordination, celebrates the Mass, it is Christ Himself invisibly acting through him. What if a particular Priest is a wicked man? The sacraments remain valid, and the Priest commits ever more serious sins that, sans penance, will lead to his greater pains in hell.

St. Augustine had occasion to deal with this very topic in his day. The question here isn't whether or not God reads hearts (He does), but rather, do we need to know what the interior life of others, particular Priests, are in order to be assured of receiving valid sacraments? This is practically impossible, but it doesn't matter to the individual recipient since it is the power of Christ Himself Who is active in the sacraments.

For Priests striving towards holiness, Christ uses them as active instruments leading them on (and others through them) to greater glory in heaven. For evil and wicked Priests, Christ uses them as passive instruments, the results of which I have already typed.

93 posted on 08/16/2004 8:12:35 PM PDT by TotusTuus
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