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To: xzins
Just from the author's own words I question the objectiveness of this article. Please consider the author's statement.

"It is difficult to glean from history the teachings of Morgan for little remains of his writings. We must rely on the polemics of his Augustinian opponents who have displayed less than honorable intentions when dealing with Morgan and who have often confused his teachings with that of the condemned Celestianism.

If all we can glean from history was from the writings of Augustine, then how can we conclude such a favorable report? And this report shows nothing of what Morgan (Pelagius) taught according to other sources. It doesn't discuss how Morgan's beliefs were held in such ill repute that the theology evolved into Semi-Peligian which later Arminian (and eventually Wesley) used to develop his theology. In my mind it is a dangerous practice to have an "evolving" theology rather than a "systematic" theology.

Some of Pelagius' thoughts included:

1. Adam was created liable to death, and would have died, whether he had sinned or not.

2. The sin of Adam hurt himself only and not the human race.

3. Infants at their birth are in the same state as Adam before the fall.

4. Neither by the death nor fall of Adam does the whole race of man die, nor by the resurrection of Christ rise again.

5. The Law introduces men into the kingdom of heaven, just in the same way as the Gospel does.

6. Even before the coming of Christ there were some men sinless.

This from an anti-Calvinist website: Pelagius

Too bad the author neglected to mention the core beliefs and history of this man.

6 posted on 08/04/2004 5:51:54 PM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
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To: HarleyD; xzins; Pyro7480

The Pelagian Drinking Song

Pelagius lived at Kardanoel
And taught a doctrine there
How, whether you went to heaven or to hell
It was your own affair.
It had nothing to do with the Church, my boy,
But was your own affair.

No, he didn't believe
In Adam and Eve
He put no faith therein!
His doubts began
With the Fall of Man
And he laughed at Original Sin.
With my row-ti-tow
Ti-oodly-ow
He laughed at original sin.

Then came the bishop of old Auxerre
Germanus was his name
He tore great handfuls out of his hair
And he called Pelagius shame.
And with his stout Episcopal staff
So thoroughly whacked and banged
The heretics all, both short and tall --
They rather had been hanged.

Oh he whacked them hard, and he banged them long
Upon each and all occasions
Till they bellowed in chorus, loud and strong
Their orthodox persuasions.
With my row-ti-tow
Ti-oodly-ow
Their orthodox persuasions.

Now the faith is old and the Devil bold
Exceedingly bold indeed.
And the masses of doubt that are floating about
Would smother a mortal creed.
But we that sit in a sturdy youth
And still can drink strong ale
Let us put it away to infallible truth
That always shall prevail.

And thank the Lord
For the temporal sword
And howling heretics too.
And all good things
Our Christendom brings
But especially barley brew!
With my row-ti-tow
Ti-oodly-ow
Especially barley brew!

-- Hillaire Belloc


7 posted on 08/04/2004 6:17:37 PM PDT by bonaventura
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To: HarleyD

One does have to wonder, however, why such theology wasn't roundly condemned at the councils at which he defended himself. Why does there appear to be one portrayal of it when Morgan was present....at was declared innocent? Why, when he was not present, was it condemned?

It is a historic curiosity to me, and it has been for some time.

So far as actual writings of Morgan...we either have them or we don't.

Couple this with the interesting fact that when Augustine, on his mission to England, appealed for the Celtic Church to recognize Rome, that Columba rejected that appeal. Augustine's mission was a failure in that regard, and Morgan came out of that Celtic Church.

There was an inter-church rivalry ongoing at that moment. The Celtics were more orthodox and aligned with the east. That rift wasn't overcome until William the Conquerer imposed the Roman primacy after his subjugation of the Island.

Should we read any charges from Augustine's pen with a critical eye regarding the events of the day?


11 posted on 08/05/2004 3:07:04 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army and Supporting Bush/Cheney 2004!)
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