old thread, but worth reviving.... for anyone else that has recently been made aware of the insidious tentacles of "seeker drivenness" infiltrating their church.
Being emotionally attached to anything or anyone but Jesus
CAN
be problematic
--such as--
--being emotionally attached to Rick Warren bashing;
--to a spouse
--children
--a job
--a car
--a home
--a hobby
--looks,
--money
. . . . etc.
Certainly Rick Warren does not go around suggesting, much less forcing people to make of him or his writings an idol. He does more the opposite--especially compared to most well known Christian leaders--including a lot of the Rick Warren bashing tribe.
I've heard/read folks whine that Rick Warren doesn't lift up Christ at all or some such silly assertion. Some complain that the Biblical God Almighty etc. and a Biblical focus on God is left out.
Here's some statements from his excellent booklet:
--which is basically excerpts from PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE:
p. 6:
You were made by God and for God--and until you understand that, life will never make sense.
Doesn't sound very man centered, to me!
p. 7
p. 9
"It's in Christ that we find out who we are and what we are living for. Long before we first heard of Christ and got our hopes up, he had his eye on us, had designs on us for glorious living, part of the overall purpose he is working out in everything and everyone. Eph 1:11 Msg This verse gives us three insights into your purpose
First, you discover your identity and purpose through a relationship with Jesus Christ. If you don't have such a relationship, I'll explain later how you can begin one.
. . .
I know you are not alone, not by a long shot.
Those who are enamored with the PDL are, IMHO, always chasing the latest mass marketing gimmick.
PDL? All fluff, no stuff
Jer 5:30-31 "An appalling and horrible thing Has happened in the land: The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule on their own authority; And My people love it so! But what will you do at the end of it?"
It's a fad, fading already. In 3 years, no one will remember it. God's Word will last until Judgement Day. Put your faith in Jesus and read the Bible every day to nourish it. The gates of hell will not prevail against such a faith.
My (now former) pastor's wife, who teaches a weekday Bible study class, is pretty big on these "flavor of the year" Bible teachers and their books. I would imagine that these Christian authors make a huge bundle of money off these books that are pressed on the church people by the leaders from the top down. She had started "The Purpose Driven Life" as a course of study when I finally had to quit going because I was getting so far behind in my regular work as well as leaving my house a mess and going to the classes for one series of study (which was directly from the Bible, incidentally). I did read most of his book, but I did have to call a halt to catch up on my regular work.
One of the motivation, how-to books I was given as a gift was written by a very popular female Christian author. I never could get into the book. From what I could tell, her biggest problem was a husband who couldn't decide whether or not to purchase a sports car. Perhaps I'm not being fair as I didn't read it through.
It just seems to me that these ladies in the "Flavor of the Year" author's club (both Christian and secular) tend to follow the format of developing an "image", are generally attractive looking and educated to start with, hubbys already make a bundle, they go to the salon for the perfect hairdo and all the extras, dress in the most up-to-date image consultant recommended clothes, make speeches for a fee or "love offering", sign books, and all that jazz. - Perhaps I'm just jealous and being unfair, but I have precious little time to read numerous books every week. I also cannot afford to spend large amounts of money at the big recommended Christian bookstore at the mall.
I finally had to leave that church because the pastor's wife and the pastor got ticked off at me (and others like me) who are not able to be perpetual students in their "classes". He got where he was using the pulpit as a bludgeoning box for his tirades on "class attendance".
I could have enjoyed a true Bible study group with a group of women who had a little true "visiting" time each week instead of having to be proper little pupils for what amounted to two and a half hour lecture classes mostly from one person.
I read both "Purpose Driven" books. I liked them both. I don't base my theology on them but I found nothing that contradicted what I believe, and actually found myself being strengthened by another mans perspective on the life of a believer.
But my desert island book beyond the bible would still be "Mere Christianity."
I am wondering, those that think this book is dangerous, to what denomination does your church belong.
And likewise, to those defending the book I ask the same question.
I am seeking to identify any paterns here.
Great post.
It is Purpose Drivel.
Anybody who wants a BIBLICALLY-BASED, God-exalting (rather than Rick Warren's touchy-feely man-centered take) look at our purpose in life needs to read John Piper's Don't Waste Your Life.
What the seeker churches won't preach on.
http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/hell.html
When A Sinner Goes To Hell. . .
"....the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame." Luke 16:22-24.
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. . ." Matthew 25:41.
"Enter ye in at the straight gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matthew 7:13-14.
"But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 8:12.
"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for the to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:43-44.
The subject of Hell isn't a very POPULAR subject, but it is, indeed, a very IMPORTANT subject. Jesus preached often about this horrible place for one basic reason: HE DOES NOT WANT YOU TO GO THERE! There are many who consider "hell fire" preaching to be cruel and unnecessary, but the Lord Jesus Christ thought it was very necessary to preach on Hell and WARN lost people of this horrible place.
Friend, since you began reading this tract, many people have died and went to Hell forever, and many more will have gone before you've finished. I can assure you that they would all love to have a second chance. They would all love to be able to read this tract and receive Christ as their Savior, but it's too late for them. They'll be in Hell for eternity. What about YOU?
As followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is our Christian duty to WARN people about the eternal torments of Hell. So we urge you to carefully consider these words of warning while you still have a chance, while God's invitation is still open to you.
THE SPHERE OF HELL
The sphere of Hell is a round, hollowed-out place in the Earth's core. Scientists say that the Earth's outer crust is less than twenty miles thick, and that beyond that point, there are rivers and lakes of FLAMING HOT LAVA, or, as the Bible calls it, a "lake of fire" (Rev. 20:15). So, this very moment your eternal soul may be less than twenty miles from the burning fires of Hell!
Hell isn't in some distant dimension; Hell is UNDER YOUR FEET! The rebels in Numbers chapter 16 went DOWN into the pit. Moses wrote in Deuteronomy 32:22 about a fire in the LOWEST HELL. Amos 9:2 speaks of people trying to DIG down into Hell. So Hell is a REAL PLACE, and it's UNDER YOUR FEET RIGHT NOW, torturing millions of lost souls forever! Think about that!
THE SUFFERING OF HELL
If you go to Hell, you'll suffer. That's what Hell is for. Just as the rich man of Luke 16, you'll be TORMENTED IN FLAMES. A sinner closes his eyes in death, and the Devil has his soul to torment in Hell forever.
You say, "God wouldn't allow such a thing to happen." Sure He will! God allows people to suffer all the time. God allowed Hitler to murder 6,000,000 Jews, did He not? God allowed Herod to kill the children under two years old, did He not (Matthew 2)? If God will allow innocent babies to be murdered, then why wouldn't He allow a Christ rejecting sinner to burn in Hell? Did God not allow Jesus Christ, an innocent and sinless man, to be beaten and murdered? If God will allow His only begotten Son to suffer and be murdered, then why should God save a sinner from Hell when he chooses not to trust Christ as Savior? Listen, friend, GOD WILL ALLOW YOU TO GO TO HELL AND BURN IF YOU ARE NOT BORN AGAIN. It happens all the time.
The suffering of Hell is horrible. Not only is there physical suffering, but there is also a great deal of MENTAL suffering. You'll always remember your earthly life. You'll remember your family and your friends. You'll remember your spouse and your children. Just as the rich man in Luke 16, you'll remember it all! You'll also remember the chances that you had to be saved. You'll remember reading this paper, and you'll remember your thoughts and comments about this paper. In Hell, you will always remember the moment that you REJECTED Jesus Christ as your Savior.
All sinners go to Hell, and they go there to suffer.
THE SOUNDS OF HELL
In Hell, there are certain sounds that you'll never hear. We take many sounds for granted today, but in Hell you'll miss them terribly. For instance, the beautiful sounds of nature will not be there. You can't hear the wind blowing gently through the tree tops in Hell, no flowing springs of water, no birds singing, and no spring showers.
You won't hear any children laughing and playing in Hell, for there are no children in Hell. You won't hear anyone say, "I love you", because in Hell, there isn't any love.
In Hell, you will hear people screaming for mercy twenty-four hours a day. It'll never stop! There will be no peace and quiet in Hell. Hell will be forever filled with roaring flames, boiling hot lava, and the horrible screams of billions of lost souls! You'll never escape the sounds of Hell.
THE SIGHT OF HELL
You'll think of the wonderful sights of God's creation, such as the beautiful sunsets, the rolling hills, and the tall snow-topped mountains, but you'll never see them again.
The Lord Jesus described Hell as a place of outer darkness. Imagine being in a place where you could only see flames rolling in the dark. Imagine seeing someone's FACE in those flames! There are no smiling faces in Hell, only the faces of pain, agony and sorrow. You'll remember all of the pretty, smiling faces that you once knew, but you'll never see them again. You'll never see your children again. You'll never see your family again. In Hell, friend, you'll see nothing except weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth forever!
THE SOCIETY OF HELL
Did you ever stop to think about WHO will be in Hell with you? Hell is the prison house of the universe. Hell is the eternal home of all drunkards, whores, thieves, murderers, hypocrites, queers and lesbians. When you go to Hell, you will not go to some special Hell just for you and your class of people. No, you will go to the prison of the universe, and you will be locked away forever with every enemy of God!
One of the most shocking things that you will discover in Hell is the fact that you will be an INFERIOR being. The Bible says that man was made LOWER THAN THE ANGELS, and Jesus Himself said that Hell was originally prepared for the Devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41). Friend, in Hell you will be RULED over by Satan and his evil forces! You will be inferior to the supernatural forces of evil. Your new home will be made up of demons, fallen angels, principalities, powers, spiritual wickedness, and even Satan himself, and YOU will be at the bottom of the guest list! If you go to Hell, you will no doubt feel very much out of place, and you'll be there forever.
THE SUDDENNESS OF HELL
Jesus said in Luke 16:22-23 that the rich man there died and was in Hell IMMEDIATELY. He was a sinner, so he went straight to Hell.
Hell is filled with people who thought they'd trust Christ to save them someday. Proverbs 27:1 says, "Boast not thyself of tomorrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth." The rich fool in Luke 12 had big plans for the future, but God said, "Thou Fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee. . ."
Hell comes suddenly. When King Belshazzar threw his drunken brawl in Daniel chapter five, he had no idea that he'd be in Hell before sunrise. Goliath had no idea that a small stone slung by a young shepherd boy would land his soul in Hell forever, but it did. Before his corpse was even cold, his soul was suffering the torments of Hell. Hell almost always takes its victims by sudden surprise, and YOU could be next.
THE SHAME OF HELL
What is the shame of Hell? Well, friend, the shame of Hell is the fact that, if you go there, you will eventually come to grips with one unforgettable truth: YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO GO! Imagine that! Imagine spending ETERNITY with that on your mind! Imagine being in Hell for a million years and then thinking, "I didn't have to come here! I could have received Christ! Oh, what a fool I was! If only I had not been so stubborn! If...if...if...!" That's the shame of Hell: going there when you DON'T HAVE TO GO!
People accuse God of being unfair in sending sinners to Hell. Listen, YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO! The decision is YOUR'S, not God's. God made His decision 2000 years ago when He gave His Only Begotten Son to die as a payment for your sins. If you go to Hell, you will go AGAINST God's will, because God wants you to REPENT and trust Christ to save you ( II Peter 3:9). How about it? Will you turn from your sins right now and trust Christ to save you? Remember, it's YOUR decision.
THE SALVATION FROM HELL
Isaiah 1:18 says, "Come now, let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." All men are sinners and need to be cleansed from sin (Rom. 3:23), and that cleansing can only come through the precious Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (Rev. 1:5; Col. 1:14).
Consider the words of the Apostle Paul: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Your only way to Heaven is through the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 10:13 says, "Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:9 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Why not turn to Him right now? Turn from your sins! Claim His promises and trust Him to save you while there's still time. Tomorrow may be too late.