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To: sinkspur; Canticle_of_Deborah

True Traditional Catholics don't accept Vatican II, period. It has nothing to do with accepting Paul VI as pope, or any of his successors.

The problem Trads have with the Novus Ordo Mass are the many liturgical abuses that have been introduced. All these abuses further water down the Faith. Don't you see how since the "new mass" has been promulgated, that attendance has fallen disastrously? That's a hint!

Indults are no better. In order for a parish to have an Indult mass, they must trade off certain allegiance to the Traditional cause, and accept the reforms of Vatican II, namely the Novus Ordo Mass. It's a lose-lose situation. Consecrated hosts are mixed with the so-called consecrated hosts of the Novus Ordo mass. You never know if you are getting a true consecrated host.

For my part, I don't like the idea of playing "Russian Roulette" with the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.


54 posted on 07/19/2004 11:29:37 AM PDT by MarineMomJ (The truth only hurts when it's true.)
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To: MarineMomJ
True Traditional Catholics don't accept Vatican II, period.

Well, you've swallowed the Rad-Trad Kool-Aid, mom.

I pray you'll return to the Bark of Peter one day.

55 posted on 07/19/2004 12:05:27 PM PDT by sinkspur (There's no problem on the inside of a kid that the outside of a dog can't cure.)
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To: MarineMomJ
True Traditional Catholics don't accept Vatican II, period. It has nothing to do with accepting Paul VI as pope, or any of his successors.

But of course it does.

... if, more generally, it is a case of teachings in which the Church intends fully to engage the prudential authority she has to feed Christ's sheep, to determine what is apt to bring minds nearer to or turn them away from the faith, we shall not hesitate to say that the magisterium proposes them in virtue of a practical prudential assistance which is truly and properly infallible, so that we can be sure of the prudence of each of these teachings, and in consequence practically sure of their intrinsic and speculative truth. To adopt a phrase of Franzelin's, if there is as yet no infallible irrevocable truth, "veritas infallibilis", there is nevertheless an infallible assurance, "infallibilis securitas". Such, for example, are the prescriptions recalling that Sacred Scripture should be interpreted in the light of the Fathers and Doctors; the law of the Code ordering professors in seminaries to teach philosophy and theology conformably with the method, doctrine and principles of the Angelic Doctor; the judgment by which a servant of God is declared blessed, etc.[800]

If, on the contrary, there is question of teachings proposed without this universality and this constancy, of solutions of recent problems not yet generalized by the Church, in which she does not intend fully to engage her prudential authority, then we shall say that the magisterium proposes them only in a fallible manner.[801] If there is infallible assistance here, it is infallible only in the improper sense, and that means that the magisterium is assisted, not for each determinate case, singillatim, divisive, but for the generality of cases, in commune, collective. It is certain, for example, that the decisions of the Biblical Commission, taken as a whole, defend the authentic meaning of the Bible and its divine character, with assured prudence. (Charles Cardinal Journet, Church of the Word Incarnate Vol. I: The Apostolic Hierarchy, London: Sheed and Ward, 1955, Ch. VII, II, B, 4)

It's possible there could be a few minor errors in the Council, but taken as a whole it safeguards the deposit of faith "with assured prudence".

Consecrated hosts are mixed with the so-called consecrated hosts of the Novus Ordo mass. You never know if you are getting a true consecrated host.

Care to explain how a host consecrated with "this is my body which will be given up for you" by a properly ordained priest is a false consecrated host?

58 posted on 07/19/2004 1:15:55 PM PDT by gbcdoj (No one doubts ... that the holy and most blessed Peter ... lives in his successors, and judges.)
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To: MarineMomJ
Hey I like the way you think, are you SSPX? If so I'd like to add you add you to my ping list.

In any case, I would like to invite you to our traditional Catholic forum.

God bless.

61 posted on 07/19/2004 1:42:53 PM PDT by AAABEST (Lord have mercy on us)
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