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To: sinkspur

Oh, but he's not outside the Church. Someone schismatic must deny the authority of the pope. A sedevacantist doesn't deny papal authority, he just doubts whether the man presently claiming that office is truly the pope. There's a difference.


9 posted on 07/07/2004 8:07:38 AM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: ultima ratio
Oh, but he's not outside the Church. Someone schismatic must deny the authority of the pope. A sedevacantist doesn't deny papal authority, he just doubts whether the man presently claiming that office is truly the pope. There's a difference.

Of course he's outside the Church, UR, your obfuscations and distinctions notwithstanding. If he denies the authority of the present pope, he denies papal authority.

He's a Protestant.

11 posted on 07/07/2004 8:13:13 AM PDT by sinkspur (There's no problem on the inside of a kid that the outside of a dog can't cure.)
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To: ultima ratio
There's a difference.

No there is not.

He is advocating that people remove their allegiance from the Pope and consider the Pope's authority null and void.

Any cafeteria Catholic of any other stripe can do the same thing.

He may pretend that the Holy See is vacant and that he will completely obey any new Pope who is elected to Mario Derksen's personal standards and who teaches in the way that Mario Derksen prefers, but in essence he claims that he is able to decide when and under what circumstances he will obey the Pope.

One cannot believe simultaneously in authority of the Papacy and one's own personal authority in acknowledging it.

Either the Pope can command obedience or he can't.

Additionally, his logic is thoroughly flawed in its basic assumption: Church discipline is not infallible but prudential.

12 posted on 07/07/2004 8:19:39 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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