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To: wideawake
Luckily, Mario Derksen's personal considerations of validity and invalidity have no theological or moral weight.

That's just one of several reasons why it is irrelevant to the discussion of JPII's phenomenological personalism. So who dragged that into the discussion anyway?

I have fairly represented it. Mario Derksen claims to be able to judge whether or not a given Pope is an apostate.

That's not even mentioned in the article.

An individual soldier in the ranks is not entitled to remove his obedience from his commander unless an authority legitimately constituted over that commander revokes the command. Otherwise, it's pure insubordination.

I believe it's Catholic theology that a soldier can and must disobey any orders which are inherently immoral. For example, a soldier cannot follow orders to kill defenseless civilians. He has to refuse obedience on the spot. Otherwise he'll be considered a war criminal (assuming his side loses the war). Do you support a German soldier who followed orders to kill inmates in concentration camps? Should they have continued to obey orders until some higher authority removed their generals from command?

No, he's specifically adduces the 1983 CIC as his grounds for unilaterally deposing the Pope. Canon law, as I recall, is disciplinary.

Again, that's not mentioned in the article, so you're bringing in lots of unrelated material. Secondly, Canon Law very often contains statements of Catholic doctrine in addition to disciplinary material.

77 posted on 07/07/2004 11:58:30 AM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
That's just one of several reasons why it is irrelevant to the discussion of JPII's phenomenological personalism. So who dragged that into the discussion anyway?

You originally wrote: "Not from "the pope" per se, but from Karol Wojtyla whom he considers to be invalid."

I responded: "Luckily, Mario Derksen's personal considerations of validity and invalidity have no theological or moral weight."

And now you tell me it's irrelevant? Why did you make that point if you did not want it addressed?

But it was mentioned in your comments to which I was responding.

I believe it's Catholic theology that a soldier can and must disobey any orders which are inherently immoral.

Of course, but I don't think anyone was arguing that the Pope was commanding Catholics to commit sins.

Again, that's not mentioned in the article, so you're bringing in lots of unrelated material.

Again, you discussed these issues above, so I don't know why you don't want to discuss them now.

Secondly, Canon Law very often contains statements of Catholic doctrine in addition to disciplinary material.

Mario's on the topic introduces the novel claim that Church disciplinary norms are infallible.

80 posted on 07/07/2004 12:18:37 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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