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To: Polycarp IV; maximillian
You obviously know NOTHING about my position on NFP."

The problem is that this is not about you, though you seem to think it is. It is evident even in the title of the thread (Trads Take Notice) you were looking for and expecting an argument. And the first one that came up you accuse of being sedevacantist. It is enirely lawful to not agree with a Pope.

Well, granted that Paul VI endorsed a form of abstinence. And I agree with him that something needed to be done. But he also endorsed Novus Ordo.

Now about that long list of Popes that endorsed NFP???????? Was Paul VI the first one? I'm still waiting

If NFP is used in a selfish manner, it too can be sinful. If it is used only in grave circumstances, it is not sinful. The difference is real.

Point

I've refreshed my self on Humanae Vitae today and even read the NFP spin on the document. It seems that they base their existence on the evils of contraception, and really play that up. Basic Catholic teaching. What is not dwelled on is the "grave matter" that is to be considered before practicing NFP, as outlined in Humanae Vitae. They go on for pages about one, and you have to search for the other.

My wife and I used to teach NFP. We resigned from it because I thought the NFP industry was failing to teach that there must be grave reasons for having recourse to NFP, and instead too often the NFP cult made it seem like as long as one used NFP, they were a "good" Catholic.

Match and game.

Notice your words "industry" and "cult". It's all gotten out of hand, Which is why it was probably never endorsed for the first 1,968 years of the Church. And if not then, why now? And why NFP rather than just an improved, modern, medical version of "Vatican Roulette?"

One thing I am confused about is how NFP became a Catholic entity. Since you use the word 'industry', does that mean they make money somewhere along the line? And if yes, how is it they are the official Catholic Family Planner? If no then never mind.

I am willing to cede that family planning is legal in the Church, I have always acknowledged that. I'm just not sure that it should be, or was ever meant to be. I guess I am entitled to an opinion without being a sedevacantist, especially if I err on the side of caution.

Oh, that long list of Popes please. Unless you are willing to cede that there is not a list, and that the practice is not a long time Church teaching, but 40 years.

Pax

65 posted on 07/05/2004 5:18:33 PM PDT by Arguss (Take the narrow road)
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To: Arguss
Oh, that long list of Popes please.

Please read the article that started this thread. Your answer is there. Add to the list there, John XXIII (VII approved of NFP in its documents), Paul VI, and JPII.

I apologize for the sedevacantist remark and retract it, OK?

66 posted on 07/05/2004 5:49:37 PM PDT by Polycarp IV (PRO-LIFE orthodox Catholic - -without exception, without compromise, without apology. Any questions?)
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