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Photo Report of Hindu Ritual at Fatima: Pictures of a Desecration
Catholic Family News Special Report ^ | John Vennari

Posted on 06/30/2004 6:04:55 AM PDT by Polycarp IV

Catholic Family News Special Report

Pictures of a Desecration

Photo Report of Hindu Ritual at Fatima

by John Vennari

(article appears below photos)

May 5: Portugal's SIC television announces its
coverage of an "uncommon ecumenical experience".
There will be a Hindu ritual at the Fatima Shrine.

 

Morning prayers in the Radha Krishna temple in Lisbon
 

"All the invocations of the pagans are hateful
to God because all their gods are devils"
- Saint Francis Xavier

 

 A young Hindu woman explains the importance
of their various gods

 

About 60 Hindus travel by bus to Fatima
 

Arrival at the Fatima Shrine
 

The Hindus bring a gift of flowers. For them, Our Lady
of Fatima is a manifestation of one of their gods.
 

SIC broacasting says, "This is a unique event in the
history of the Sanctuary and of devotion itself...
 

...the Hindu priest, the Shastri recites at the (Catholic)
altar the Shanti Pa, the prayer for peace."

 

The Hindu ritual — a ceremony to false gods — desecrates
the Fatima Shrine, making it necessary for the chapel
to be re-consecrated.
 

The "Hindu family of Porgutal" worshipping at the
shrine after the Hindu ceremony.

 

Shrine Rector Guerra speaks approvingly about
the Hindu worship at Fatima

 

Crossing the esplanade to meet the Bishop
and the Shrine Rector

 

Received by the Bishop of Fatima. SIC explains, "the
Hindu pilgrims are received as if they were an embassy,
an unheard of gesture...
 

...which can be understood as an invitation for other visits"
This means that the pagan desecration of Fatima
is likely to happen again.
 

The Bishop of Fatima says,
"We do not want to be fundamentalists"

 

Shrine Rector Guerra receives from the Hindus
a shawl covered with verses of the Baghwad Gita,
a "sacred book" of Hinduism whose basic message
is, all of life is an illusion.
 

The Bishop of Fatima also receives a shawl
laden with verses of pagan mythology.
 

Acknoweldgement to SIC Televisino for video footage from which these photos were extracted.

 

 

Catholic Family News has obtained a video copy of the SIC television broadcast of the Hindu ritual performed at Fatima. As reported last month, the sacrilege took place on May 5 with the blessing of Fatima Shrine Rector Guerra, and the Bishop of Leiria-Fatima, D. Sarafim de Sousa Ferreira e Silva.

SIC, a national television station in Portugal, reported on the Hindu ritual at Fatima the same day it took place. The announcer called it an “ncommon ecumenical experience.”

The broadcast shows morning prayer at the Radha Krishna temple in Lisbon. “Light and water, energy and nature, mark the rhythm of the Arati, the morning prayer,” the announcer says. “Hinduism is the oldest of the great religions. It is characterized by multiple deities, worshiped through a triple dimension of life and sacredness: the creator god, the preserver god, and the god who has the power to destroy.”

Thus the Hindus spent the morning worshiping their false gods, which are nothing more than demons. Saint Francis Xavier, the apostle to India, said of Hinduism: “All the invocations of the pagans are hateful to God because all their gods are devils.”[1]

A young Hindu woman appears on screen with statues of gods in the background. She explains, “This is god Shiva and his wife Parvati. In the center we can see god Rama, to our right his wife Sita and to our left, his brother and companion Lakshmama. Now we can see Krishna Bhagwan and his consort Radha. The deities are always accompanied by their respective consorts or wives. As a rule, when we address the deities or want to ask for their graces, we address the feminine deity, who is very important to us.”

About 60 Hindus, said the broadcast, “leave Lisbon with the chandam, the sign on their foreheads which shows the wish for good fortune in a noble task. And this is the day dedicated to the greatest of all female deities. She is called the Most Holy Mother, the goddess Devi, the deity of Nature who many Portuguese Hindus also find in Fatima.”

Another young Hindu lady explains, “As a Hindu, who believes the whole world, or rather all human beings, are members of a global family, it would be natural for me to see any manifestation of God, including Our Lady of Fatima, as a manifestation of the same God.”

Here, this young lady speaks as a true Hindu, since Hinduism regards the various false gods they worship as manifestations of “God”. Thus, they are not honoring Our Lady as the Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ, but worshiping Her as a manifestation of their pagan god.

The newscast then shows the Hindus bringing flowers to the statue of Our Lady inside the Capelinha, the little chapel built over the spot where Our Lady of Fatima appeared. The Hindu priest stands at the Catholic altar and recites a Hindu prayer. Meanwhile, the SIC announcer says, “This is a unique moment in the history of the Sanctuary and of devotion itself. The Hindu priest, the Shastri, recites at the altar the Shanti Pa, the prayer for peace.”

Pope Pius XI, in a liturgical prayer consecrating the human race to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, prayed for the conversion of all who are not members of the Mystical Body. He invoked Our Lord, “be Thou King of all those who are involved with the darkness of idolatry”. [2] This idolatry is now practiced at the Fatima Shrine, desecrating the sacred site, making it necessary for the chapel to be re-consecrated.

In another clip, the Hindu priest explains that he finds a “divine energy” at Fatima. “It is an energy that permeates the whole place,” he says. “ It has the power to be present here, around us. Whenever I come here, I feel this vibration ...”

SIC then explains that the display of this group of Hindus at Fatima “is not well-accepted by all Catholics”. The camera then shifts to Fatima Shrine Rector Guerra who defends Hindu worship at the Catholic Shrine.

“It is obvious” says Rector Guerra, “that these civilizations and religions are quite different. But I think that there is a common background to all religions. There is a common background that, how can I put it, is born from the common humanity we all possess. And it is very important that we recognize this common background, because, due to the clashes of the differences, we sometimes forget our equality. These meetings give us that occasion.”

The Hindus are then welcomed by the Bishop of Leiria-Fatima in a room containing a large model of the modernistic Fatima Shrine now under construction. “This time,” says the broadcast, “the Hindu pilgrims are received as if they were an embassy; an unheard of gesture which can be understood as an invitation for other visits.” This means that the pagan desecration of the Fatima Shrine is likely to happen again and again.

The Bishop of Leiria- Fatima then says, “We don’t want to be fundamentalist, we don’t want that, but we want to be honest, sincere and want to communicate by osmosis the fruitfulness of our rituals, so that we may produce fruits. I am pleased to meet them.”

At this point, the Hindu priest places on the shoulders of the Bishop of Leiria- Fatima and Shrine Rector Guerra a shawl covered with verse of the Bhagwad Gita, one of Hinduism’s sacred books.

The report ends with a close-up of a guest book that includes the signatures of Pope John Paul II, Mother Teresa, and a Hindu high priest. It goes on to say that Hindus intend to keep Fatima “on the road map of places where they claim they can find vibrations of holiness...”

Catholic Family News has reported on the interfaith orientation at Fatima since it was launched at the interreligious Congress held at Fatima in October 2003.[4] We warned repeatedly that this type of desecration was inevitable if Catholics did not resist the new ecumenical program.

Predictably, the enablers of the “New Fatima” such as Father Robert J. Fox ridiculed our efforts and tried to dissuade Catholics from taking us seriously. Father Fox, on an April 25 EWTN broadcast, claimed that the reports about the interfaith activity at Fatima were nothing but "fabrications,” that he knows Shrine Rector Guerra personally, and that Rector Guerra would never allow such interfaith activities to take place. Less than two weeks after this EWTN broadcast, the Fatima Shrine was desecrated by pagan worship, with the blessing of Rector Guerra and the Bishop of Leiria- Fatima.

Pope Leo XIII, along with his predecessors taught “we are bound absolutely to worship God in the way which He has shown to be His will".[3] Hinduism worships false gods who are demons. It is sacrilegious for Rector Guerra and the Bishop of Fatima to permit these rituals in a Catholic sanctuary.

Pope Pius XI called it “ignominious” to place the true religion of Jesus Christ “on the same level with false religions”.[5] Pope Leo XIII likewise taught “it is contrary to reason that error and truth should have equal rights.”[6]  Thus the “equality” that Msgr. Guerra speaks of, and his notion of various religions coming from a “com mon background,” defies Catholic truth.

Rector Guerra and the Bishop of Leiria-Fatima are also guilty of grave scandal. Their actions tell these poor Hindus, who are in bondage to a heathen religion, that they are pleasing to God as they are. This is contrary to the manifest will of Christ, Who said, “No one comes to the Father but through Me.” “He who believes and is baptized will be saved, He who does not believe will be condemned.” Hindus reject Jesus Christ. They have no interest in baptism or in the truths revealed by God. Rector Guerra and the Bishop of Lierra of Fatima counsel and encourage this apostasy. By their bad example, they scandalize not only the Hindus, but others who observe their actions.

“Scandal” says Saint Thomas Aquinas, “is a word or act which gives occasion to the spiritual ruin of one’s neighbor.” Saint Leo calls the authors of scandal murderers who kill not the body but the soul. Saint Bernard says that, in speaking of sinners in general, the Scriptures hold out hope of amendment and pardon, but the Scriptures speak of those who give scandal, as persons separated from God, of whose salvation there is very little hope.[7]

Perhaps this is why we see a spiritual blindness in these men. They persist in their apostasy despite the outrage from concerned Catholics. Nonetheless, we must pray for them.

And what of the Hindus themselves? The Shastri comes to Fatima because he feels there a “divine energy,” “vibrations of holiness”. Members of all religions worship the same god and are part of the “global family”.

This is the language of paganism, not of our received Catholic tradition. "Holy vibrations” is what Hindus call Shakti, and they go to various places to seek it. They will rush to be in the presence of the Dalai Lama or Pope John Paul II or Ghandi because this gives them Darshan, the good fortune that comes from being in the sight of a holy man. Each and every one of their terms is rooted in heathen superstition, not in the truths revealed by Christ.

In short, the Hindus did not go to the Fatima Shrine to be Catholicized. Rather, they Hinduized the Fatima Shrine, folding their pagan myths and superstitions into one of Catholicism’s most sacred sites.

This is not honoring the Mother of God, but a blasphemy against Her, since there is nothing honorable in placing Our Lady on the same level as one more goddess in their pantheon of demonic deities. “What concord hath Christ with Belial?”, says Saint Paul, “or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever?” (2 Cor. 6:15)

At the end of the visit, the Hindus presented Msgr. Guerra and the Bishop of Fatima with a shawl covered with verse of the Bhagwad Gita. This book contains a story which illustrates a central tenet of Hinduism.

Arjuna, a warrior, is on the eve of a great battle. He dreads the next day, because he knows he will have to kill his friends, relatives, teachers. Arjuna's charioteer, who turns out to be the god Krishna in disguise, tells Arjuna not to fear the coming battle because none of it is real. No one is going to die. All of it, and all of life, is illusion.

Arjuna then thrusts himself into the bloody conflict believing it to be his Dharma, his given path, to hack his friends and relatives to pieces. It is all illusion anyway. No one really dies. This is Hinduism in a nutshell. You are god, everything else is illusion.[8]

Catholics who behold the Fatima Shrine Rector and the Bishop of Fatima draped in shawls laden with verses from a pagan mythology, certainly would wish that the Hindu desecration of Fatima was an illusion, that none of it was real.

But no, it really happened. And Catholics must register their outrage to Rome and to Fatima, as they offer prayers of reparation for Catholic leaders who hand over the chapel of Our Lady of Fatima to a religion whose god is the devil.

Notes:

1. Saint Francis Xavier, James Brodrick, S.J., (New York: Wicklow Press, 1952), p. 135.

2. Consecration of the Human Race to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, Pope Pius XI, published along with the Encyclical Quas Primas, “On the Kingship of Christ”, 1925.

3. Imortale Dei, 1885.

4. See J. Vennari: “Fatima to Become an Interfaith Shrine? An Account from One Who Was There", (CFN, December, 2003), "More News on the Fatima Interfaith Program",  (CFN, Jan., 2004), "Shrine Rector Confirms New Interfaith Orientation at Fatima", (CFN, Feb., 2004), Hindu Ritual Performed at Fatima Shrine, (CFN, May, 2004).

5. Quas Primas, 1925.

6. Libertas, 1888.

7. Quotes taken from Sermons of Saint Alphonsus Liguori, “On Scandal,” (Rockford: Tan Books, reprinted 1982), pp. 168-181.

8. For more, see “The Dharma of Deception”, Edwin Faust, Catholic Family News, November, 1998.

 

Reprinted from the July, 2004 edition of
Catholic Family News
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TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; fatima; fatimadesecration; fatimahindu; hindu; olf
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To: St.Chuck

I mean you not only accept the Novus Ordo--which is undergirded by a Protestant Paschal Meal theology and therefore undermines the dogmas of Propitiation and Transubstantiation--but you reflect the skeptical Protestant outlook on Marian devotions as well.


161 posted on 06/30/2004 10:28:16 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: Polycarp IV; NYer; Salvation; sandyeggo; ninenot; B Knotts; sinkspur; St.Chuck
Why is this story/report so exclusive to Mr. Vennari?  Does anyone recall EWTN, or a non-SSPX group covering this?



And elsewhere: Dubious sources in Catholic Family News

Residents of St. Blog's will recall that the scandal involving Robert Sungenis and CAI in 2002 was sparked by his use of dubious sources in his article "Conversion of the Jews Not Necessary? The Apocalyptic Ramifications of a Novel Teaching." 1.

One of the key sources of last year's controversy was Sungenis' praise of Fr. Denis Fahey, a proponent of the Jewish Zionist conspiry who is held in high regard by both the SSPX and various White Supremacist organizations, and whose book The Kingship of Christ and the Conversion of the Jewish Nation received rave review by John Vennari in The Remnant (and is in fact, sold by the Remant bookstore).

Regretfully, in the past month evidence of another recent traditionalist use of dubious sources has surfaced. The latest issue of Catholic Family News, edited by John Vennari, features an article on The Attack on the Oberammergau Passion Play, which, besides prominent mention of Fr. Fahey, also mentions as a credible source Judaism's Strange Gods by Michael Hoffman II.2.


18. Talmud, Back to the Sources: Reading the Classic Jewish Texts, Robert Goldenberg (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1984), pp. 166-167. Cited from Judaism's Strange Gods, Michael Hoffman II, p. 6.

22. One of the finest contemporary books on the subject of the Talmud and the Kabbalah is Judaism's Strange Gods by Michael Hoffman II, (Cour d'Alene: The Independent History and Research Company, Fourth Printing, August, 2002).
This is not the first time Michael Hoffman II is referred to by Catholic Family News. The March 2003 article "The Talmudic Touch: The Real Story of the Offertory's Replacement" by Craig Heimbichner also cites Hoffman's book as a source.

So, one may ask: just who is Michael A. Hoffman II? -- According to his website, he is a revisionist historian and investigative reporter, self-proclaimed source for "suppressed information on Judaism's strange gods, secret societies and psychological warfare and radical history", and when he's not inveighing against Zionism, the Talmud, and the Holocaust, or defending white separatism, , he's attacking Pope John Paul II and Cardinal Ratzinger as "covert adherents of the religion of Judaism. They are crypto-rabbis, loyal to Talmudic doctrine, rather than the authentic Gospel of Jesus Christ, which they betray". He even refers to the Holy Father as "the Judas Iscariot of our time." One doesn't have to look very far to find similar polemics on "The Jewish Mentality".

Traditionalists may have legitimate grievances about the post-Vatican II church and the right to express them -- and it is entirely possible to do so in a respectful and credible manner. However, one can only conclude that Vennari's high praise of such a controversial source3 as "one of the finest contemporary books on the subject of the Talmud" in the pages of Catholic Family News can only result in the further tarnishing and discrediting of the Catholic traditionalist movement.4

162 posted on 06/30/2004 10:28:25 PM PDT by GirlShortstop ( O sublime humility! That the Lord... should humble Himself like this...)
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To: ultima ratio

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. The pope did it. From my perspective, your view of the pope is a desecration. Irreverence, disrespect, contempt. Yep. The definition fits.


163 posted on 06/30/2004 10:30:08 PM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: Polycarp IV

I never suggested anything of the kind. I just told old and tired that this is not the place for a big discussion of the merits of Hinduism. It's a thread concerning the desecration of a Catholic church.

What the heck got YOUR panties in a bunch?


164 posted on 06/30/2004 10:39:10 PM PDT by broadsword (Liberalism is the societal AIDS virus that thwarts our national defense.)
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To: narses
You might reread your own post and ask yourself how others might view your words. Just a thought.

I read it as a bushel of self-righteous Unam Sanctimony.
165 posted on 06/30/2004 10:43:30 PM PDT by broadsword (Liberalism is the societal AIDS virus that thwarts our national defense.)
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To: St.Chuck

If you see my view of the Pope as a desecration, then you are confusing him with God--which is another form of idolatry. You give to the Pope the respect you do not even concede to God, since you see no harm in Hindus worshiping at Catholic altars which the first commandment prohibits. You think if a pope okays this--then it's all right. But it's not all right. It's still a desecration that is prohibited--and the Church has always taught this. JPII offends against the Magisterial teachings of this same Church if he violates its strictures. The fact that he is a pope makes no difference. This is a divine precept, not a human one, and must be obeyed by all. No pope is above the laws and precepts of his Church.


166 posted on 06/30/2004 10:45:13 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: Grey Ghost II

LOL! Let the words of the Lavender Gospel corect your ways, my son. ROTFL!


167 posted on 06/30/2004 10:48:54 PM PDT by broadsword (Liberalism is the societal AIDS virus that thwarts our national defense.)
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To: narses

"There's no problem on the inside of a kid that the outside of a dog can't cure."

Yeah. I think that next time my nephew gets sick or falls into sin, I'll just tell my sister to rub the dog on him. Of course, she'll probably just look at me like I'm some sort of brainless, liberal, pagan, homo, but that's certainly to be expected.


168 posted on 06/30/2004 10:52:36 PM PDT by broadsword (Liberalism is the societal AIDS virus that thwarts our national defense.)
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To: Polycarp IV
Don't be coy, we both know the sense in which the other posters are using it: to violate the sanctity of : PROFANE; to treat disrespectfully, irreverently, or outrageously; to treat (something sacred) with abuse, irreverence, or contempt : DESECRATE.

No, we don't know the sense in which they used it; at least I didn't assume I did. The knowlegable posters whom I had queried might know of a theological or canonical explanation of the term that I was unaware of.

So your question is not how they are using it.

Yes it was.

You are simply trying to refute their claim that it is, in fact, desecration.

Eventually, probably, but it seemed prudent to make sure the term we were using was indeed something which we could agree on. Ultima ratio gave a fine answer.

You are saying they are being silly for referring to this event as desecration.

No, I certainly wasn't. You are attributing thoughts to me that I did not have, nor did I express.

169 posted on 06/30/2004 10:54:31 PM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: Unam Sanctam

Canon Law is immaterial here. It is Divine Law we're talking about.


170 posted on 06/30/2004 10:55:46 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: Polycarp IV

The Basics of Hinduism or the Religion of the Vedas

Bhakti Yoga - or loving union with God - is the essence of what is commonly known as Hinduism, arguably the most ancient of the world's major religions. Bhakti Yoga, or Vaishnavism, means loving devotion to God, and is historically the primary branch of Hinduism.* The Vedas, the ancient Sanskrit scriptures upon which Hindusim is based, teach many levels of Yoga (union with God). Bhakti, the highest level, means service to God in total oneness of love. This unity is like the love and oneness of purpose and will between a parent and child, master and servant, or lover and beloved. There is no loss of individuality of the soul. The word "Vaishnava" means a servant of Vishnu, a name of God indicating that He is the supreme controller and maintainer.

The Vedas are wide ranging and philosophically deep scriptures, containing many methods of spiritual advancement as well as guidelines for living a pious life, and directions for many arts and sciences. The four Vedas, accompanying Puranas, Samhitas, Upanishads, the Mahabharata (containing the Bhagavad Gita), and Ramayana are the bulk of the Vedic literature, and the dates of their composition reaches so far back into the past that no historian can say accurately when they were first written.** For millenia, countless numbers of people have faithfully studied the Vedas to learn how to direct their lives toward God, and these people have come to be known as Hindus, their body of belief as Hinduism, and the culture so based as the Hindu culture. The word "Hindu" is actually a mispronunciation of the Sindhu River, which was the barrier the invading Moghuls had to cross in order to invade India. The Muslims therefore called the inhabitants of ancient India "Hindus" since they lived across the Sindhu River. Historically, people following the Vedic religion never called themselves "Hindus" and that word is not found in the Sanskrit Vedic literature. The Vedic religion is called Sanatan Dharma, the eternal function or duty of the soul. In any case, the followers of the Vedas, now called Hindus, represent a large segment of the world's population and have for the past thousands of years.

As is not uncommon with other religions, many modern practitioners are not always well versed in the meaning of their own scriptures and traditions. There is often misunderstanding among cultural Hindus concerning the worship of demigods, which is actually condemned in the Bhagavad Gita itself. There has also arisen a branch of Hinduism which promotes the concept of "oneness" with God by "merging" into God, or becoming God. According to the Vedic teachings and the ancient and current holy teachers, this is blasphemy of the worst sort. The truth is that the individual soul is eternally an individual, and God is always the Supreme Person.

The basic tenets of the religion of the Vedas are as follows:

1. There is one Supreme Godhead, who has many names and features. He is the Supreme Person, Father of all beings, and creator of everything in existence, both in the material, created, temporary world, and the eternal Kingdom of God.

2. His nature is completely spiritual and pure; He is all-good, all-knowing, and all-powerful. He is eternal, all-merciful, all-loving, and has an eternal form of bliss and perfect knowledge.

3. Similarly, all living beings are spiritual in nature (in other words, every living being is in essence an eternal soul currently shackled by the material body and mind) but are currently in ignorance about their real identity.*** In order to become purified and thereby freed from ignorance, and saved from our separation from God, many methods are ordained, chief of which is to meditate (which is also a form of prayer) upon the names of God. There are many ways to practice such meditation, and many holy names, but all such names refer directly to the Supreme Person Himself.

4. All living beings are His children, and the purpose and goal of life is to live in harmony with His will for His pleasure, thereby becoming happy oneself and do good to others. This is the real meaning of religion - to follow the orders of God, thereby reuniting with Him in obedience and love.

Corollary to these basic understandings is the conviction that one should show compassion to others, and be tolerant of others' practices and beliefs, knowing that anyone who worships God in another way, calling Him by other names, is also worshipping the same Supreme Being. There are other practices consistent with the Vedic path, primarily the avoidance of any intoxication, gambling, illicit sexual relations of every kind, and the acceptance of a vegetarian diet. The purpose of these is to purify one's existence and show mercy to others.

There are also other rules of pious behavior which are universal in nature such as prohibitions against lying, theft, covetousness, envy, killing of the innocent, sensual over-indulgence, cruelty, and the injunction to show mercy, compassion, and respect to others, including animals.

Anyone who studies the Vedas even in a cursory manner will find striking similarities between the philosphy and understanding contained therein and other religions, notably Christianity, Islam, Judaism and even Buddhism (which is essentially a code of ethics rather than a religion, as Buddhists do not admit the existence of a Supreme Being). The moral codes for behavior, high standards of compassion for others, and striving for a relationship of obedience to God are intrinsic in all.

In fact, the practice of mantra (holy name) meditation is universal, being practiced by Christians (such as praying the rosary, or by the Desert Fathers), some Jews (notably Hasids), Muslims, and in their own way by Buddhists.

Another feature of Vedic religion is the reverence shown to saints and holy teachers in disciplic line. The words of holy teachers (acharyas, or gurus) are taken as authority, but such teachers must be in an authentic line, teaching without deviating or invention, be living examplary lives themselves, and offering their teaching freely. This may be comparable to the line of Popes in Roman Catholicism, Holy Fathers in Eastern Orthodox Churches, and Judaism also has its tradition of mystic rabbis who are traditionally offered reverence. In all these traditions, however, the basic premise is that of free will; in other words, obedience to the will of God voluntarily and from love. All religions are based on the premise of the free will of the soul voluntarily offering his love and service to the Supreme Godhead, and that is also true in Vaishnavism, or Bhakti Yoga, the religion of the Vedas.

In summary, the Vedic philosophy and religious wisdom is ancient, elevated, universal, and in basic moral values consistent with other monotheist religions.

*Shaivism - worship of Shiva - is the other main branch. That is another essay which I won't attempt here. Suffice to say worship of Shiva is also indirect worship of the Supreme, but often performed in ignorance or not in accordance with Vedic tenets. Shiva himself worships the Supreme Person and is not, as some claim, God; nor does Shiva claim to be God.

**Although some Indologists have variously dated the Vedas of relatively recent origin, their dates are speculative and based mostly on erroneous data, as well as wholely false information invented on the Muslim invaders, who conquered much of India beginning after Mohammed's death.

***The cause of our falldown into separation from God is a long topic in itself. Simply put, each soul fell to this realm of birth and death due to envy of and rebellion against God's supremacy.

(Notes on Bhagavad Gita tomorrow.)


171 posted on 06/30/2004 10:59:17 PM PDT by little jeremiah (http://www.mikegabbard.com - a REAL conservative running for Congress!)
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To: St.Chuck
They did not desecrate anything because they did not treat anything as not sacred.

Now THERE'S a stretch--an extremely UN-Catholic stretch.
172 posted on 06/30/2004 10:59:32 PM PDT by broadsword (Liberalism is the societal AIDS virus that thwarts our national defense.)
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To: AskStPhilomena

Interesting that the Pope thinks his brand of ecumenism is "irrevocable." Yet he routinely ignores Pius V's papal bull on the Mass which had been decreed for all time. He should know that if it is not a part of the faith--and his brand of ecumenism is not--then it is revocable, perhaps not by him--but time is not on his side. Neither are events. People are getting fed up.


173 posted on 06/30/2004 11:02:50 PM PDT by ultima ratio
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To: broadsword
Now THERE'S a stretch--an extremely UN-Catholic stretch.

Noooooooo. It is not unCatholic to seek precision.

174 posted on 06/30/2004 11:19:28 PM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: little jeremiah
Thankyou,that was informative and beautifully expressed.

If I met you and asked about your religion would you say you were a Vedic Hindu,or just that you were a Hindu? Are the Vedic Hindus as large as the other group? Are you a "cradle" Vedic Hindu?

Is there one guru or acharya that speaks for all such as the Pope or the Patriarchs?

I can only say that I wish that I could weave my Catholicism into my comments in such a way as to make people see the beauty of my faith through my words and thoughts the way that you do yours. Thanks again.

175 posted on 07/01/2004 12:52:36 AM PDT by saradippity
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To: St.Chuck

"That's what I would think a desecration is. But the Hindu's, according to our intrepid Mr. Vennari, displayed the utmost respect, putting face paint on to make the journey and removing their shoes (see picture) as little jeremiah suggested would be a sign of reverence. They did not desecrate anything because they did not treat anything as not sacred."

The fault here does not lie with the Hindus - I'm sure they acted in well-intentioned ignorance of the scandal that would be given to Catholics by the breaking of the First Commandment at a Christian altar.

Desecration = profanation from the Latin profanum - pro (before, or outside of) fanum (the temple).

Applies to treating what is Holy with irreverence i.e. taking what belongs to the temple out of it, or taking what does not belong to the temple into it.

If you also would care to read your Bible, you will see that the worship of foreign gods in the temple of Yahweh is always seen as a desecration, profanation or abomination.

It leads to the temple being ichabod or ikabod - the kabod (pronounced kavod, meaning Glory of God or Holy Spirit) leaving the temple. (i'kabod - "i" in Hebrew meaning same as our prefix "a" or "an" such as in aseptic compared to septic).

That the bishop and rector of Fatima have not only permitted but encouraged the worship of demons (cf. Psalm 95/96, For all the gods of the gentiles are demons), they have encouraged the desecration of the temple of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - the temple they are ordained to guard and keep.

They have become whores of Babylon.


176 posted on 07/01/2004 3:15:02 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Dajjal

"How does this syncretism jibe with Our Lady's prophecy that "In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved, etc.?""

New spin required on the "etc.":

In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved....despite the infiltration of my Son's Holy Priesthood by freemasons, communists and homosexuals who will defile the very temple dedicated in my honour for a time.


177 posted on 07/01/2004 3:20:33 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: TXFireman

ping


178 posted on 07/01/2004 3:51:16 AM PDT by Jonx6
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To: Coleus
And why do so many Catholics take up Yoga and pray/chant to om? Aren't they inviting evil into their souls?

Maybe not inviting evil, but certainly making themselves susceptible to demonic influence. The practice of emptying the mind is not Christian.

Centering prayer

179 posted on 07/01/2004 4:48:47 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: narses
In Lost Angeles they call it "The Temple of Doom", or "The Taj Mahony".

Nicknames always seem to capture the essence of a thing...

180 posted on 07/01/2004 4:59:12 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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