Cardinal Maida OK's Tridentine Mass for Detroit

Crux News ^ | 3rd June 2004

[broadsword]

I prefer the Novus Ordo.

LOL! Now there's a stunning testimonial! ROTF!

[sinkspur]

Even prior to the Council, Pius XII had given permission for the "Dialogue Mass."

It is simply inconceiveable to me that there would not have been a vernacular version of the Tridentine Mass, with or without Vatican II.

[broadsword]

Is the Novus Ordo more congruent with Catholic doctrine than the Tridentine? Seems like that is the key.

Doctrine schmoctrine! This is the NEW AGE! We just make new doctrine up as we go along, and we're having a gay old time! You have to fit the moment, ya know.

[ninenot]

Howdy. We prayed, and God's will was done....

Careful out there. Newbie (?) poster with purple passionate scribbles has not much of a sense of humor.

[sinkspur]

Is the Novus Ordo more congruent with Catholic doctrine than the Tridentine?

It is as congruent as the Tridentine. The Novus Ordo has all the elements of the Tridentine, with variants that can be traced back to the Early Church.

The SSPXers will tell you that the Novus Ordo has no sacrificial element to it, but that is ludicrous, and simply not true.

[ninenot]

You nailed it. Sacred time, sacred space, sacred language. Loss of most of the above commenced around 1965

[drstevej]

***Careful out there. Newbie (?) poster with purple passionate scribbles has not much of a sense of humor.***

What scares me is that the only thing that rhymes with GRPL is purple!

[ninenot]

You, too, noticed BS's, ah, concentration on the fudge-packers?

..and then he/she/it uses such gauche HTML colors! What a fright on-screen!

[drstevej]

I have followed these threads for over a year. And as a Protestant, I really don't have a dog in this hunt. But, I honestly think the trads make a strong case for the Tridentine Mass and raise serious concerns about the NO.

Just a Proddy opinion. But the ecumenism of the post V2 RCC sure reminds me of the parallel movement in mainline Proddy denominations at the turn of the last century. The fruit of that ecumenism was rotten indeed (eg. WCC & NCC).

[sinkspur]

He's a kid.

Sophomores in high school run around, calling everybody a "fag."

You get the picture.

[ninenot]

Yeah, but Sinky, Pius XII (maybe X) made it a point to discourage retro-liturgical actions. For good reason, too.

"Development of Doctrine" also applies to "liturgy." The search for primitive ritual is counter-productive, and you know it.

Further, as we have discussed, there's damn little real solid evidence for most of this silliness--Jungmann did a fair amount of speculating and informed guessing, and the lit-twits, Weakie and Bugsy, were not any better informed...

[ninenot]

He has the accent down, though.

[ultima ratio]

Do you imagine that by repeating the word "normative" that this makes the Novus Ordo any less reprehensible to the Holy Spirit than it is? Clearly it is an abomination that is destroying the faith of Catholics. It was imposed brutally--by force and deception--and the result has been havoc for the Church ever since. It is no wonder it has borne such rotten fruit.

[sinkspur]

But, I honestly think the trads make a strong case for the Tridentine Mass and raise serious concerns about the NO.

That's from sheer number of posts, steve.

I don't see the Novus Ordo being defended much, except by Catholic Guy, and Black Elk, and me.

The trads, OTOH, would have you believe that everybody at a Novus Ordo Mass is buck naked and engaged in sexual congress.

The idea that, if we just brought back the Tridentine Mass and reimposed it on the entire Church, everything would be hunky-dory is just silly, on its face.

[broadsword]

...concentration on the fudge-packers

Because, by their invasion of my Church and formalization in their lavender mafia, they are the bigest enemies of the Church. They have destroyed most seminaries and completely destroyed many religious orders. They have committed 85% of all the child mollestations in the Church and have brought the priesthood of Jesus christ to shame in the public eye. So, yes, I have a real problem with them. I hate what they have done and want them to stop destroying the innocent members of my Church.

Do you have a problem with that? If so, why? Do you support them or are you still just seething with misplaced hatred over an old snit you and I had? I let that go a long time ago. Perhaps it's time for you to do the same. Especially since you and I are in agreement on most things Catholic, despite your constant lie that I am an SSPXer, which, BTW, is something I never even heard of before coming here. I am in srict union with the Holy Roman Catholic Church, and attend Novus Ordo Masses when I cannot go to an indult Mass in my diocese.

Got it? Or does getting it even matter to you?

[sinkspur]

The search for primitive ritual is counter-productive, and you know it.

No, I don't know it. How is worshipping as the disciples did "counter-productive"?

[ninenot]

Technically, what you propose is an impossibility--that is, that NO rubrics would be used in an Old Rite Mass. No can do, mon...

Further, the translation is SO bad, especially in the case of the Orations, that elementary Latin students can pick up the differences, if both the Latin and the English are side-by-side. In fact, you can pick it up from Spanish/English fascicles that are out today.

In some ways, the slovenliness is societally endemic, not limited to the Church. OTOH, many priests have not made it a point to be particular about their mannerisms.

[drstevej]

***That's from sheer number of posts, steve.**8

Not so, sink. AND, for the record, Catholic Guy and Black Elk are NO SLOUCHES in defending their views.

[Land of the Irish]

reimposed it on the entire Church

Like Paul VI did with his new Mass?

[broadsword]

How is worshipping as the disciples did "counter-productive"?

Because, as ninenot posted, the Pope said it is. Besides, nobody really knows exactly how the disciples conducted the Mass. So that argument is just a ruse for the ANYTHING-GOES! types to claim false authority for their oddball freak masses.