Cardinal Maida OK's Tridentine Mass for Detroit

Crux News ^ | 3rd June 2004

[Desdemona]

Hmmm...

It seems money always talks.

I still think the roots of all the dissent comes from the early 20th century. Just something about the way the older aunts were about religion and their reasons for not practicing. Without doing a full-fledged study on it, it would difficult to pin-point, though.

[patent]

"Fr.Shirilla told a reporter for the Michigan Catholic that, regarding those who want the Tridentine Mass, "We have to fight them tooth and nail." Fr. Shirilla was relieved of his post in 1993 when he was identified as a serial child molester, who favored young altar boys, going back more than 20 years. He never quite lost favor with Cardinal Maida, however, and was secretly re-assigned seven years later as pastor of a parish in the Diocese of Gaylord, Michigan."

That's the take home message. Vehement opposition to the traditional Latin Mass is often a sign of a serious underlying disorder. It makes me wonder about the disorientation of some anti-traditionalists on this website.

By posts like that you reveal both your own “serious underlying disorder” and your dishonesty.

You try to tie opposition to the Tridentine to pedophilia. You then try to take it one step further and suggest that all those on this website who are against the nasty schismatic traditionalists like you are somehow similarly disoriented.

Grow up, if you can’t debate without childish ad hominems like that, you have no place on an adult forum.

First, very, very, very few Catholics on this website are against the Tridentine Mass. So even if your first line of BS were somehow true, that would hardly imply that those who oppose you here at FR are disoriented. I’ll use myself as an example. Before your currant screen name signed up I was a fairly active poster, and I strongly opposed schismatic trads like you. Yet, I also frequently attend the Tridentine Mass. So your logic about the “disorientation of some anti-traditionalists on this website” has quite a bit of a hole in it.

What we really oppose here on FR isn’t the Tridentine, but the schismatic tendencies of some folks who act like you do. Quite frankly, I rather doubt St. Philomena would act anything like that. If you are going to chose her name, you could at the very least not disgrace it.

So grow up.

patent

[patent]

"Courts can't change statutes of limitation; only legislatures can, as California's did."

BWAHAHAHAHahahaha, yeah, sure. Explain Roe-v-Wade then.

A statute of limitation limits the time period after the injury in which you can sue. You are injured on 1/1/2000. Your particular type of injury has a six year statute of limitations. You must file your lawsuit by 1/1/2006, or your chance is gone.

Roe v. Wade concerned a very different issue, which is mootness. Mootness is a court controlled doctrine, for the most part, while a statute of limitations is nearly always a legislative controlled issue, at least under current US practice.

patent

[patent]

Do you imagine that by repeating the word "normative" that this makes the Novus Ordo any less reprehensible to the Holy Spirit than it is? Clearly it is an abomination that is destroying the faith of Catholics.

A fully valid Mass is reprehensible to the Holy Spirit? You reveal yourself as the sedevantist that you are.

I’ve been away for a bit, have you admitted you’re a sedevacantist yet?

patent

[sinkspur]

You really have six Masses on Sunday? What are the times? I wouldn't doubt that two of your "six" Masses are the Saturday afternoon golf masses.

One on Saturday, five on Sunday.

You guys don't believe in Saturday Mass, do you?

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

The Traditional Mass and the Novus Ordo are both Masses of the Latin/Roman Rite. They are NOT different rites. If I have time today I will pull up Cardinal Hoyos' quote where he said the same.

[Maximilian]

I don't it matters what language we use, as long as we adore, praise, thank, petition, and ask for mercy with reverence, awe, and humility.

Blessed Pope John XXIII disagreed:

Veterum Sapientiae

Venerable languages

The Church has ever held the literary evidences of this wisdom in the highest esteem. She values especially the Greek and Latin languages in which wisdom itself is cloaked, as it were, in a vesture of gold. She has likewise welcomed the use of other venerable languages, which flourished in the East. For these too have had no little influence on the progress of humanity and civilization. By their use in sacred liturgies and in versions of Holy Scripture, they have remained in force in certain regions even to the present day, bearing constant witness to the living voice of antiquity.

A primary place

But amid this variety of languages a primary place must surely be given to that language which had its origins in Latium, and later proved so admirable a means for the spreading of Christianity throughout the West.

And since in Gods special Providence this language united so many nations together under the authority of the Roman Empire— and that for so many centuries— it also became the rightful language of the Apostolic See.3 Preserved for posterity, it proved to be a bond of unity for the Christian peoples of Europe.

The nature of Latin

Of its very nature Latin is most suitable for promoting every form of culture among peoples. It gives rise to no jealousies. It does not favor any one nation, but presents itself with equal impartiality to all and is equally acceptable to all.

Nor must we overlook the characteristic nobility of Latin formal structure. Its "concise, varied and harmonious style, full of majesty and dignity" makes for singular clarity and impressiveness of expression.

Preservation of Latin by the Holy See

For these reasons the Apostolic See has always been at pains to preserve Latin, deeming it worthy of being used in the exercise of her teaching authority "as the splendid vesture of her heavenly doctrine and sacred laws." She further requires her sacred ministers to use it, for by so doing they are the better able, wherever they may be, to acquaint themselves with the mind of the Holy See on any matter, and communicate the more easily with Rome and with one another.

Thus the "knowledge and use of this language," so intimately bound up with the Church's life, "is important not so much on cultural or literary grounds, as for religious reasons." These are the words of Our Predecessor Pius XI, who conducted a scientific inquiry into this whole subject, and indicated three qualities of the Latin language which harmonize to a remarkable degree with the Church's nature. "For the Church, precisely because it embraces all nations and is destined to endure to the end of time . . of its very nature requires a language which is:
universal,
immutable, and
non vernacular."

[Kolokotronis]

I have now read roughly 180 posts on this topic, and it still seems to me that the bottom line problem is a loss of a sense of the sacred. When I was a kid, I went to Catholic school, prayed at many Tridentine Masses and Benediction services especially during Holy and Great Lent. My oldest son also went to Catholic school so I got a dose of the NO. I know my religious backround is somewhat different from you RCs and I mean no disrespect, but you really lost something with the change. I have no doubt whatsoever concerning the validity of the Roman sacrament, but it seems to be being conducted in a very Protestant, mundane setting. When my oldest was 13, he and I were down in Greece at my grandfather's village. We went up to the monastery to visit a cousin, a nun (named "Parthenia"...how appropriate!) The abbess asked us if we would stay for vespers. In a small 1000 year old chapel on the monastery grounds, lit only by 12 candles, the nuns chanted the vespers for that night. Half way through it, my son turned to me and said, "This must be what its like in heaven, Dad." You know, to pray the same way my family has prayed for 1500 or more years is a good thing. I do hope the Church of Rome finds its way back to that sense of the sacred for all of you.

[drstevej]

***then surely it can survive in the Church even if RuPaul becomes Pope***

Given the current climate, he/she may have a better shot at elevation than Pope Piel.

[ninenot]

Most older types left the Church over: 1) a divorce; or 2) birth control.

Most times in the case of divorce it is because they did not understand (or CHOSE not to understand) the rules of the Church re: marriage.

[Land of the Irish]

You guys don't believe in Saturday Mass, do you?

Of course we do, we're Catholics. We have daily Mass. Today, we had an extra Mass because it's a First Saturday. However, I will fulfill my Sunday obligation on Sundays and I will fulfill my holy day of obligation of Ascension Thursday on Ascension Thursday, not Ascension Sunday. Heck, "You guys" even "celebrate" Easter Sunday on Saturdays.

USCCB: "To hell with Holy Week, let's let the sheep go golfing as they wish to do".

[ninenot]

Dead-on, as usual.

[ninenot]

Thanks for your well-wishes.

"From the mouths of babes..."

The first time my last child (now 10) walked into my current parish church, she whispered to her Mom "This place is Beauuutifullll" (correctly, might I add.)

Her exposure had only been to the NO-styled arena/movie architecture, void of decoration, statuary, etc.

We, too, hope fervently that the sense of 'sacred' may re-enter, and SOON.

[Land of the Irish]

Grow up, if you can’t debate without childish ad hominems

Like this one: schismatic tendencies of some folks who act like you

So grow up.

No need to repeat yourself, you'll only look more foolish.

AskStPhilomena:
Pay this windbag no heed, he's one of those civil lawyers who falsely assumes he also as a degree in Canon law.

[ultima ratio]

Validity means very little. It is valid because Transubstantiation takes place. But the text and rubrics deliberately ignore this very reality and do all they can to deflect attention from it. It purposely undermines the Catholic faith by means of a Protestant theological perspective condemned by Trent.

[ultima ratio]

I haven't changed my thinking one jot. I am not a sedevacantist since I believe JPII is legitimate and not a formal heretic. That is not saying much--I still think he's a bad pope and probably materially heretical, given his ecumenical policies which border on both syncretism and indifferentism. As for the validity of the Novus Ordo--I have always claimed that it was valid. That too is not saying much. It is a protestantizing Mass that is dangerous to the Catholic faith--and this is provable. It has also produced very rotten fruit. By their fruits ye shall know them...

[ultima ratio]

You object to Philomena's characterization--yet you call her a schismatic trad. I would say she is on the whole more on target than you, given your past whacky ideas about what constitutes schism.

[ultima ratio]

Sucking up as usual.

[k omalley]

When I attended Catholic school for girls, many of the students would crawl out of bed to attend 0630 weekday Mass in the little school chapel. Attendance at weekday Mass was voluntary. I was not Catholic at the time and couldn't receive Communion but I knew I had found the most beautiful and heavenly thing on earth. If the Tridentine Mass got 13 year old girls out of bed before dawn, you know it had to be something wonderful.