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To: NYer

But all the glory is given to Mary, from the title of this article on. It's always about Mary, and with personal respect, don't you see that?


4 posted on 05/30/2004 6:17:19 AM PDT by xJones
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To: xJones

Not at all. Our Lady always leads people to her Son.


6 posted on 05/30/2004 6:32:35 AM PDT by B Knotts
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To: xJones
It's always about Mary, and with personal respect, don't you see that?

Yes. I don't know where the line is crossed between honoring Mary and Mariolatry.

“Holy Mother, forgive me my sins,”

Clearly, this is going too far.

I never have been able to understand why Jesus in the church, Eucharist and sacraments is insufficient to satiate peoples' hunger. I'm kind of caught in the middle on a lot of this. If people already have Jesus, as Catholics do from the day they are baptized, through their confirmation and by attending mass throughout their lives, why do they need Mary to lead them to Him?

The real Mary was a major contributor to the Christian religion and deserves to be honored as such. I can't help seeing a parallel in the old testament where the Jews had their revealed religion and evidently it wasn't enough for them and they went off worshipping other gods in shrines on the hilltops which was ultimately divinely punished by their being carried off into captivity.

I'd be more open to a lot of this if I were sure that it is the real Mary that is the source of all the Marian phenonema.

I know the church builds her theology on the intercession of Mary and the saints, but in the first intercession, from what little we are told about it, it appears that she took it upon herself to mention it and not by being asked to do so. Furthermore, she didn't ask. She made a declarative statement, "They have no wine". Then she makes an imperative statement, "Do whatever he tells you." She never really asks . I suppose this is considered intercession in a roundabout way.

16 posted on 05/30/2004 11:00:50 AM PDT by Aliska
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To: xJones; B Knotts; Cap'n Crunch; sartorius; Salvation
But all the glory is given to Mary, from the title of this article on. It's always about Mary, and with personal respect, don't you see that?

Biblical Basis

God alone deserves and must receive divine worship: "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve" (Matthew 4:10).  Angels cannot receive this worship: "Let no man beguile you of your reward, in a voluntary humility, and worshipping of angels" (Colossians 2:18; see also Revelation 19:10; 22:8-9).  Human beings also cannot receive it (Acts 10:25).  But the Bible also tells us in regard to creatures to give honor where honor is due (Romans 13:8) such as civil authorities and parents:  "Honour thy father and thy mother" (Exodus 20:12; Deuteronomy 5:16).

Mary is our heavenly Mother, as discussed in article.  Since God commanded us to honor our mothers, Mary certainly deserves our honor.

Marian devotion began when the Angel Gabriel saluted Mary, saying "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee" (Luke 1:27, Douay); words undoubtably given him by God.  The Holy Spirit then inspired Elizabeth to carry on the devotion, by making her cry out "Blessed art thou among women...blessed is she who believed".  God inspired the first devotees of Mary; He even inspired Mary herself to prophesy "From henceforth all generations shall call me blessed" (Luke 1:48).  God clearly wants all people to call Mary blessed!  The Catholic Church fulfills God's will in this matter.

An inscription at the Church of the Annunciation in Nazareth, dating back to 200 A.D., says "Hail Mary!".  This is very early evidence of prayer to Mary.

The Sub Tuum Praesidium is another early prayer to her:

We fly to your patronage, O holy Mother of God.
Despise not our petitions in our necessities,
But deliver us from all dangers,
O ever-glorious and Blessed Virgin! (circa 300 A.D.)
The Hail Mary also originated early on, since most of it comes from the Bible.  This later became one of the prayers of the Rosary, along with the Our Father, Glory be and Apostle's Creed, all of Biblical or early Christian origin.

So Marian devotions clearly trace back to the early Church.

19 posted on 05/30/2004 12:22:47 PM PDT by NYer (Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light! (2Cor 11:14))
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