Schism Amongst "Old Catholics"

Touchstone ^ | May 2004 | Laurence J. Orzell

[Tomasz]

The May 2004 issue of the conservative American ecumenical journal Touchstone contains a “Special Report” on the 2003 meeting of the "Old Catholic" bishops at Prague and the expulsion of the US-based Polish National Catholic Church (PNCC) from the Union of Utrecht.

Liberal West European prelates expelled the PNCC because the latter refused to accept the ordination of women, the "blessing" of "same-sex partnerships," and sacramental sharing with Protestant eccleisal communities.

[gbcdoj]

Good for the PNCC! Now if they'd just get themselves back into the Church...

[Arguss]

I was always of the opinion that the Old Catholics were ultra traditionalists, just an earlier version of SSPX. Were they always this progessive, or did it morph after their schism?

[NYer]

Liberal West European prelates expelled the PNCC because the latter refused to accept the ordination of women, the "blessing" of "same-sex partnerships," and sacramental sharing with Protestant eccleisal communities.

What! A schism amongst the schismatics! How can that be!

Mary Ramerman
Excommunicated from the RC Church
Now serving as priestess
Old Catholic Church

Gee, I wonder where this decision leaves her now.

[Talking_Mouse]

Gee, I wonder where this decision leaves her now.

Still unable to consecrate the Host.

[Loyalist]

The Old Catholics of Germany and Switzerland broke with the Church after Vatican I, rejecting the infallible declaration of papal infallibility by the council.

The Old Catholics established apostolic succession through the bishops of the Church of Utrecht, a small sect of Dutch Catholics who had broken away in the 1720's over the condemnation of Jansenism.

The Old Catholics quickly became indistinguishable from liberal Protestants in their theology and practice.

The groups in North America which call themselves "Old Catholic" do not possess Old Catholic orders; their highly doubtful claims to apostolic succession pass through two renegade clerics from England and France, Arnold Harris Mathew and Joseph Rene Vilatte, who got themselves made bishops about 100 years ago by some strange expedients.

The Old Catholics of Europe now number less than one million nominal adherents; the number of regularly practicing Old Catholics is far lower still.

Give them wide berth.

[Revenge of Sith]

Also, excommunicated black priest George Stallings, who founded the racist African American Catholic Congregation, was consecrated a bishop by an Old Catholic bishop.

[Revenge of Sith]

They have absolutely nothing in common with the SSPX, SSPV, sedevacantists and Feeneyites. The Old Catholics oppose the dogma of papal infallibity which was proclaimed by Pius IX at Vatican I.

[BlackElk]

"Old Catholics" who deny papal infallibility are schismatics (at best, depending on the validity of theier orders and succession). Feeneyites, sedevacantists SSPX and SSPV are also schismatics for various reasons. That is what they have in common. Do you disagree?

[Revenge of Sith]

I was replying who thought that the Old Catholics were ultraditionalists and I only pointed out that the Old Catholics are liberal schismatics, not conservative schismatics. My view about the ultratraditionalist schismatics (not just Catholic ones because there also ultraditionalist Protestants and Eastern Orthodox who broke away from their respective churches in recent years) that although I don't intend to become one myself because they go too far, is that the Church left them more than they left the Church just like the Democratic Party left Ronald Reagan;-)