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To: Teleosis
I do not understand your argument. Treating these passages as the same event does not work for me.

In the Matthew 13, passage the bad guys are taken away and the good guys are left behind. In the Revelation 14 passage, the good guys are taken away and the bad guys are left behind.

Where are you addressing this reversal?
70 posted on 05/12/2004 10:31:36 AM PDT by Seven_0 (It is the character of theWord of God to leave something to be the reward for diligence-FW Grant)
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To: Seven_0
In the Matthew 13, passage the bad guys are taken away and the good guys are left behind.

I presume you mean Matthew 24:40 and 41 since that is what we were talking about before.

I showed before that the word for "taken" in verses 40 and 41 does not have the same definition as what we would normally associate with it in the English nor is it like the "took" of the previous verse 39. In fact, this same word, paralambano is the very Greek word used when it is said that someone 'receives' Christ.

Furthermore, the took away in the example of the bad people in regards to Noah is an entirely different word than the take in regards to the two men or two women. That word is airo and means to raise up, take up, lift which is more like how we would define take.

I also think you have to understand that the portion of text in the Olivet Discourse as written in Matthew from verse 24:31 up to verse 24:45 extrapolates on the events happening in verse 24:31; the gathering of the elect.

When Jesus says in verse 24:32, "Now learn the lesson of the fig tree:" this is a break in the linear sequence of events Jesus has been teaching to the Disciples that will happen in answer to their question which starts the whole discourse: "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

So the example of the two that receive their inheritance (a better translation of what the 'take' in verses 40 and 41 are saying in the original language) goes back to the gathering - it is when we are redeemed from the world ourselves as Luke wrote in 21:28: "When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

Again here is a definition of "taken" in Matthew 24:40-41:

The compound has such senses as “to take over,” e.g., a position, and “to inherit,” especially intellectual things, e.g., a student from a teacher…With a personal object the term is used for the reception of Christ by the world (Jn 1:11) and for acceptance into the kingdom of Christ (Jn 14:3; Mt. 24:40-41).—Theological Dictionary of the New Testament p.496-7.

I hope that helps you to see that being taken means to receive your inheritance at this point in the sequence of events. I certainly hope to be taken at that time, because what happens next can be read in Revelation when the seventh Seal is opened and God's wrath is delivered.

71 posted on 05/12/2004 1:05:50 PM PDT by Teleosis
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To: Seven_0
In the Matthew 13, passage the bad guys are taken away and the good guys are left behind.

I think another thing to look at in the passage you are referencing and seem to be stuck on for meaning is that the context of that lesson about the gathering has to do with that people don't know when Jesus is coming. People can and will be ignorant. Even when that day comes, and the prophets tell us it will be a day unlike any other, no one knows the hour. I think it will go on long enough that people will eventually go about their normal business. At some point, someone is going to say, 'Well it may be dark out, but someone has to get something to eat,' or 'I'm tired; I'm going to bed.'

ZEC 14:3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

ZEC 14:6 On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. 7 It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime--a day known to the LORD. When evening comes, there will be light.

Likewise, the people in Noah's time didn't know the flood was coming. To some, especially the wicked, this day will catch them unaware. They will be "left behind." I think too that even those that are to be gathered up with the elect do not have to have perfect knowledge of what is going on. You do not have to pass an eschatology test to be admitted to Heaven. So the theme of Mt 24:36-41 is that people will not know exactly when this day will come.

I will reemphasis, that even though Jesus gives us a series of events that precludes the sign of the Son of Man and the attendant gathering of the elect, there is enough latitude of time regarding what Jesus remarked as being a great tribulation unequaled in time that it is impossible for anyone to predict which particular day after the midpoint when the Abomination is set up when the words of Ezekiel come true:

EZE 32:7 When I snuff you out, I will cover the heavens
and darken their stars;
I will cover the sun with a cloud,
and the moon will not give its light.

EZE 32:8 All the shining lights in the heavens
I will darken over you;
I will bring darkness over your land, declares the Sovereign LORD.


72 posted on 05/12/2004 1:32:02 PM PDT by Teleosis
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