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To: Hermann the Cherusker
Russia is already a Catholic nation. Her people are not heretics, but dissidents or schismatics.

Schismatics are not Catholics.

For any man to be able to prove his Catholic faith and affirm that he is truly a Catholic, he must be able to convince the Apostolic See of this. For this See is predominant and with it the faithful of the whole Church should agree.[7] And the man who abandons the See of Peter can only be falsely confident that he is in the Church.[8] As a result, that man is already a schismatic and a sinner who establishes a see in opposition to the unique See of the blessed Peter[9] from which the rights of sacred communion derive for all men.[10]

9. This fact was well known to the illustrious bishops of the Eastern Churches. Hence at the Council of Constantinople held in the year 536, Mennas the bishop of that city affirmed openly with the approval of the fathers, "We follow and obey the Apostolic See, as Your Charity realizes and we consider those in communion with it to be in communion with us, and we too condemn the men condemned by it."[11] Even more clearly and emphatically St. Maximus, abbot of Chrysopolis, and a confessor of the faith, in refer ring to Pyrrhus the Monothelite, declared: "If he wants neither to be nor to be called a heretic, he toes not need to satisfy random individuals of his orthodoxy, for this is excessive and unreasonable. But just as all men have been scandalized at him since the chief man was scandalized, so also when that one has been satisfied, all men will doubtless be satisfied. He should hasten to satisfy the Roman See before all others. For when this See has been satisfied, all men everywhere will join in declaring him pious and orthodox. For that man wastes his words who thinks that men like me must be persuaded and beguiled when he has not yet satisfied and beseeched the blessed Pope of the holy Roman Church. From the incarnate word of God Himself as well as from the conclusions and sacred canons of all holy councils, the Apostolic See has been granted the command, authority and power of binding and loosing for all God's holy churches in the entire world."[12] For this reason John, Bishop of Constantinople, solemnly declared-and the entire Eighth Ecumenical Council did so later—"that the names of those who were separated from communion with the Catholic Church, that is of those who did not agree in all matters with the Apostolic See, are not to be read out during the sacred mysteries."[13] This plainly meant that they did not recognize those men as true Catholics. All these traditions dictate that whoever the Roman Pontiff judges to be a schismatic for not expressly admitting and reverencing his power must stop calling himself Catholic. (Bl. Pius IX, Encyclical Quartus Supra On the Church in Armenia)


14 posted on 05/09/2004 5:57:56 PM PDT by gbcdoj (Et ecce ego vobiscum sum omnibus diebus usque ad consummationem saeculi)
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To: gbcdoj
Do schismatics hold the Catholic faith or not?

If you agree with the terminology of Catholicism, obviously they do, because a schismatic is not necessarily a heretic.

One who holds the Catholic faith may be called a Catholic. It is of course understood that those who are not in Communion with the Catholic Church are not Catholics properly so called.

To say that the Orthodox do not hold the Catholic faith is to accuse them of heresy. When an accusation of heresy is made against a formerly Catholic party, it is incumbent upon the accuser to point to the matter of the heresy, and the date it was adopted. Can you do so with the Christians of Russia?
15 posted on 05/09/2004 6:18:44 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: gbcdoj; Hermann the Cherusker
Funny thing, I thought your pope said communion in our churches was acceptable.

Also not to worry, we still consider you heretics. :-)

34 posted on 05/10/2004 7:35:57 AM PDT by MarMema ("Hamtramck is going to be a pioneer city for the whole United States.")
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