[FactQuest]

Me:The sacraments are most definitely something you "do."
You:Then so is repentance, belief, "taking Jesus as your personal Savior", prayer, Bible study ... etc. You'd better not do those, either.

Getting down to the nitty gritty, salvation comes from the acceptance of grace. God extends a gift to you. You receive it, or you reject it. Everything else in an act of righteousness. Repentance, belief... Not that any of these are to be avoided, on the contrary. They are the natural steps that are worked in the heart of the person who accepts God grace. But, these acts are not what saves.

Me:For that matter, while we are on the subject of baptism, where do we see infant baptism in the Bible?
You:Tell me, when were Jewish boys circumcised? On the eighth day? When Peter speaks in Acts, he says "the promise is to you and to your children". What Peter giveth, FactQuest taketh away?

Peter didn't say: "to you and your children... as long as you circumcise them on the 8th day... no, wait, better make that infant baptism." No, the promise is given without that condition... seems like you've added something. And I honestly haven't a clue as to what you think I've taken away, other than a condition that isn't there.

Me:In the Bible, baptism is consistently seen as an act, by an adult, as an outward show of repentance.
You: Nonsense. Nothing in Scripture calls baptism "an outward show of repentance". Christ condemns anything done as an "outward show of repentance". Nothing in Scripture limits baptism to adults, either.

Perhaps "show" was the wrong word choice... call it an outward manifestation of a real inner repentance. (putting aside the mental picture of someone walking the Via Dolorosa on their bloody knees...) No, nothing explicitly prohibits it. But, every example if that of an adult. Every example is coupled with repentance, save that of Jesus. (Hence John the Baptist's reluctance.) In the Jewish frame of reference, it was closely associated with ritual purification - cleansing from impurity. But forgiveness of sin was not its effect, that took a sacrifice at the temple.

Me:Where does it say that they had the authority to transfer the authority to forgive sin?
You:Same place it says they had the authority to write a single word of the New Testament.

The two aren't even close. One is a power - until then - vested solely in God. The other is something many people do every day. And it was only later that people came to realize that the accounts and letters were more than just a preservation of history and encouragements and teachings, but inspired as well.

Me:Christ's death made the way for people to come directly into the presence of God Almighty, without priests
You:The English word "priest" corresponds to and is derived from the Greek presbyter, or elder, an office which is clearly instituted in the NT.

Words, labels, semantics. What is the function of the elder as seen in the NT? Teaching, training, shepherding. Forgiving sins? Not seen. Baptizing infants? Not seen. Interceding? Not seen. Having their faith substitute for the lack of faith of their followers? Not seen.

[dangus]

>>call it an outward manifestation of a real inner repentance. <<

That's exactly what it is. And if it isn't outwardly manifested, odds are, it didn't happen. Think of a burning log: Combustion causes heat and light, so if the log is cold and dark, I'm gonna guess the log isn't burning. You need to experience the (outward) sacrament of baptism, otherwise you cannot say you have been baptised.

[Campion]

But, these acts are not what saves.

Sure, God saves. The question is how he does it: instrumentality, not agent.

And I honestly haven't a clue as to what you think I've taken away

Baptism is the sign of entry into the covenant, just as circumcision was. You aren't permitting that to infants.

The early church very clearly disagrees with you on this, BTW. Justin Martyr even speaks of old women alive in his day who were baptized by the Apostles. Since he was writing in AD 150, a little bit of math tells you that they were baptized as infants or young children.

One is a power - until then - vested solely in God.

Excuse me, but Scripture is inspired by God. Sins are forgiven by God. Both are powers which come from God. And you've already admitted that Jesus gave that power to the Apostles; you just reject the 2000-year-old belief of the church that that power did not die with the Apostles.

What is the function of the elder as seen in the NT? Teaching, training, shepherding. Forgiving sins? Not seen.

Already mentioned: John 20.

Interceding? Not seen.

Surely you understand that all Christians are to intercede for one another.

Having their faith substitute for the lack of faith of their followers? Not seen.

We no more believe that about our priests than you believe it about your pastors. I know you don't mean to offend, but that's an offensive and nasty accusation to level at fellow believers.